Re: Forum to become members only.

[Guest]

I am saddened to see that the club has decided to make the Forum "Members Only"

This of course is the clubs right to do so, but I feel that it will result in a loss to the club and associated "Community" as a whole.

To me, the MMOC has always had the right idea to allow none members access, as it gives them a chance to see how things are before deciding to join the club, and therefore take advantage of the "Extra benefits" that Membership offers.

Why do I think this decision may not be a good idea?.....

I'm not going to rant on, but will point out what I believe to be a "flaw in reasoning" in regards to making this decision.

This is in reference to the following excerpt within the announcement .....

We feel that the information contained in these pages going back more than 10 years is absolutely invaluable and as such forms one of the major benefits of being a member

I would just like to point out that a rather large portion of this "invaluable information" was posted by Non Members (Past and present), and is often referenced by all and often "revisited" by the author to either "Update" or even refresh their own thoughts on a particular subject.

It is of course one of the major reasons people come here, and many have become members, in part because of the information held within the archive, as well as those non members who have contributed in no small way to it's current content.

I believe to restrict access to this "Archive" to Club Members only is unfair and "Unwise".

After the unfortunate demise of the Triple-M forum, a good portion of the "users" came over to this forum, and have made considerable contributions to the valuable information held within the forum archive, whether it be notifications of spares availability, or full on tech tips and "How To's" for those who are either "Novices" in regards to Maestro & Montego ownership, or simply need help with an issue they had not had to deal with before.

Also, with the MGM Group now winding up, this will be the main destination for those in need of such advice and insights into ownership of these cars.

I believe the MMOC was more than aware that the end of the MGM Group is "nigh", and the recent announcement makes it look like owners are now being "forced" to join just to get the "open handed" help previously available, an openness I truly believe is at the very core of why this club as prospered as well as it has.

I will be sorry to see this change come into place, but wish the club well in it's future endeavour's.

Mal Watson.

[Austin-Rover]

Thanks for your thoughts on this, Mal.

I know you've been around the Club and the community as a whole for many years. I also know that in that time you'll have seen the number of these cars in use decline significantly. This goes hand in hand with the big reduction in people using these cars as every-day workhorses. The vast majority of Maestro and Montego owners are now in it for the long-haul and their cars enjoy the lifestyle of a classic car, rather than an every day car.

Many of those who used to come here for quick information were not enthusiasts as such, they were just looking to keep their old car on the road, or get it through another MoT.

Today these people have mostly been replaced by the enthusiast, and the enthusiast is more likely to join a Owners Club in general - whatever car they own. The wealth of experience and knowledge that hundreds of people have left here over the last ten years is a valuable resource - arguably one of the Club's biggest assets. Encouraging full Club membership is going to allow the Club to grow, move forward and help with the exciting projects we have planned over the next couple of years. We hope it will actually increase people's involvement with the running of the Club.

Our membership rates have always offered good value for money, especially when compared with Owners Clubs of a similar size - one year's membership is still under £20.

To help bridge the gap between the current Forum set up and the changes on 1st January 2015, we're offering a massive reduction in the cost of joining the Club; 1 Year for £12.00 and 2 Years for £20.00

[BIGDAVE]

i do agree a little with mal about access to the maestro/montigo being open to non members.but the cost of membership is not very much and the club is not a charity and needs funds to keep the club going.there is a lot of contribution on the site from non members and would be missed if they loose access if only open to members.but there is the added club magazine for club membership.so hopefully non members would join up to receive the very good magazine.i hope mal and other non members join up and continue to make the club even better.
dave

[Andy]

Where has this been announced by a club official and when is it due to come into effect? Personally think its a daft idea, just leave it as is, doing no harm. For people wanting to become a member there is lots of incentives but not everyone that visits the site still owns a maestro/montego or maybes owns many cars and does not want to join a club for every model. Not exactly getting a lot of traffic through and posts made anyhow are we going to get even less if its members only. In my view its just isolating people that might otherwise buy a maestro/montego. I mean, I used this forum for nearly 9 years before I took out a membership and only did so because I eventually bought a maestro. I wouldn't have bought one if it was a locked forum because I wouldn't have paid for a membership on a car forum for a car I didn't own and therefore would have not seen the advert for the car for sale I purchased.

[Guest]

Thanks for your thoughts on this, Mal.

I know you've been around the Club and the community as a whole for many years. I also know that in that time you'll have seen the number of these cars in use decline significantly. This goes hand in hand with the big reduction in people using these cars as every-day workhorses. The vast majority of Maestro and Montego owners are now in it for the long-haul and their cars enjoy the lifestyle of a classic car, rather than an every day car.

Many of those who used to come here for quick information were not enthusiasts as such, they were just looking to keep their old car on the road, or get it through another MoT.

Today these people have mostly been replaced by the enthusiast, and the enthusiast is more likely to join a Owners Club in general - whatever car they own. The wealth of experience and knowledge that hundreds of people have left here over the last ten years is a valuable resource - arguably one of the Club's biggest assets. Encouraging full Club membership is going to allow the Club to grow, move forward and help with the exciting projects we have planned over the next couple of years. We hope it will actually increase people's involvement with the running of the Club.

I'm sorry Richard, but I have to disagree with that train of thought.

There are still many owners out there who do not restrict their cars to "High days and Holidays" usage.
Just because we don't always see them on the road, does not mean they are not out there.

Also, in these times of restricted finances for the majority, more and more people are moving away from paid memberships not towards them, as even some of the lowest club fee's can be a strain on the pocket for many.

I can only see this move causing people to move away from the community built around these cars, not towards it.

Many clubs and forums for "Lesser favored" classics and collectable vehicles have maintained area's for non members, as well as general free access forums, as they have proven to be an asset in the long term future of the the clubs they support.

The RSSOC (Reliant Scimitar and Sabre club) as an example, have been in go since the 80's, and officially there standing as prized classics is in a similar vein to the Maestro and Montego, and has not improved much over the years.
Even though interest has increased many times over since the clubs inception, they believe as I do, that non member interaction is a key to a successful internet based club forum. The club has its paid membership side and the forum has open access for the main part, with dedicated sections that only paid members can access.
This continued openness has seen increased interest in the Mk as well as increased paid membership numbers.

Many times I have read on various car related forums over the years, post's by people stating that they do not frequent various clubs because those clubs insist on members "exclusivity" in regards to online pages.
(pages which give a good insight into how the club works, and how it can help owners)

People will always like to "try before they buy", and not having that option cannot be a good thing in the long term.

For the most part, I have enjoyed being a part of this community, and have had some great times, and made some very good friends.

I shall miss it come January, but I have no interest in a membership at this time,(especially as I am clearing out, and not increasing my involvement with these cars) and have placed some of my reasoning below in regards to BigDave's response.

BigDave.

At no time has anyone hinted that the club is a "charity", but the clubs current standing re members is, in my personal opinion down to previous failings, some of which where in regards to communication issues experienced by members and "users" alike, accessibility issues in regards to club Spares and of course the previously "hit and miss" issue with regards to the club magazine.

It has been great to see these issues improve over the past year or so, and to witness a more open and involved committee grow from the changes.

I would agree with the possible need for a "members only" section of the forum, as it would show future members that the forum does have some "exclusivity" for them, but to essentially ostracise the large number of "forum users" in the hope that paid membership numbers increase, is poor reasoning at best.

In all honestly, I can see this decision causing the interest in these models to stagnate, or indeed contract due to there no longer being a freely accessible forum for their discussion.

Not everyone wants a club magazine, not every owner go's to car events, or wants to present their car on a club stand. Those people would essentially lose out if they bought Membership, as they would not use the facilities they are paying for.

With the forth coming closure of the MGM groups doors, the MMOC and it's forum will be for the most part the last bastion dedicated solely to these cars.

I feel that this forum should be "opening it's doors to owners" not "slamming it in their face".

BTW: Will this decision also extend to the facebook page set up under the clubs name?.

Mal. Watson.

[thomas]

Im a member of this club even though I dont own one at the moment.
I do think that this is a backward step as there are alot of people that arent members and their expertise is second to none.
All you will be doing is forcing the good people away and in turn maybe set up a rival free service and more and more people would go over there.
Some people use these cars as Modern cars ie everyday cars and the information thats avaliable to them will be lost and I dare say it will move many cars to an early demise-Yes I have seen this done before

[ian drew]

I was a member of the MG M Group many years ago but I didn't see any benefit form being a paid member, so I left and only frequented the Triple M Group. Making the forum members only, in my opinion, will be the start of a slippery slope.

I am a member of the MMOC and I joined because I agreed with the clubs principals of supporting the brands and working towards keeping spares available. Now one feels that those principles are second to making money.

I think forum users should be encouraged to join the club with the use of certain parts of the forum being members only, but definitely not all of it.

Whether the decision is changed at all won't stop me being a member as I also believe that the membership fee is good value.
Will the club be refunding those who have paid more than the £12 for the forthcoming years membership?

Ian

[ian drew]

I was a member of the MG M Group many years ago but I didn't see any benefit form being a paid member, so I left and only frequented the Triple M Group. Making the forum members only, in my opinion, will be the start of a slippery slope.

I am a member of the MMOC and I joined because I agreed with the clubs principals of supporting the brands and working towards keeping spares available. Now one feels that those principles are second to making money.

I think forum users should be encouraged to join the club with the use of certain parts of the forum being members only, but definitely not all of it.

Whether the decision is changed at all won't stop me being a member as I also believe that the membership fee is good value.
Will the club be refunding those who have paid more than the £12 for the forthcoming years membership?

Ian

[EVO AL]

I'm sorry Richard, but I have to disagree with that train of thought.

There are still many owners out there who do not restrict their cars to "High days and Holidays" usage.
Just because we don't always see them on the road, does not mean they are not out there.

Also, in these times of restricted finances for the majority, more and more people are moving away from paid memberships not towards them, as even some of the lowest club fee's can be a strain on the pocket for many.

I can only see this move causing people to move away from the community built around these cars, not towards it.

Many clubs and forums for "Lesser favored" classics and collectable vehicles have maintained area's for non members, as well as general free access forums, as they have proven to be an asset in the long term future of the the clubs they support.

The RSSOC (Reliant Scimitar and Sabre club) as an example, have been in go since the 80's, and officially there standing as prized classics is in a similar vein to the Maestro and Montego, and has not improved much over the years.
Even though interest has increased many times over since the clubs inception, they believe as I do, that non member interaction is a key to a successful internet based club forum. The club has its paid membership side and the forum has open access for the main part, with dedicated sections that only paid members can access.
This continued openness has seen increased interest in the Mk as well as increased paid membership numbers.

Many times I have read on various car related forums over the years, post's by people stating that they do not frequent various clubs because those clubs insist on members "exclusivity" in regards to online pages.
(pages which give a good insight into how the club works, and how it can help owners)

People will always like to "try before they buy", and not having that option cannot be a good thing in the long term.

For the most part, I have enjoyed being a part of this community, and have had some great times, and made some very good friends.

I shall miss it come January, but I have no interest in a membership at this time,(especially as I am clearing out, and not increasing my involvement with these cars) and have placed some of my reasoning below in regards to BigDave's response.

BigDave.

At no time has anyone hinted that the club is a "charity", but the clubs current standing re members is, in my personal opinion down to previous failings, some of which where in regards to communication issues experienced by members and "users" alike, accessibility issues in regards to club Spares and of course the previously "hit and miss" issue with regards to the club magazine.

It has been great to see these issues improve over the past year or so, and to witness a more open and involved committee grow from the changes.

I would agree with the possible need for a "members only" section of the forum, as it would show future members that the forum does have some "exclusivity" for them, but to essentially ostracise the large number of "forum users" in the hope that paid membership numbers increase, is poor reasoning at best.

In all honestly, I can see this decision causing the interest in these models to stagnate, or indeed contract due to there no longer being a freely accessible forum for their discussion.

Not everyone wants a club magazine, not every owner go's to car events, or wants to present their car on a club stand. Those people would essentially lose out if they bought Membership, as they would not use the facilities they are paying for.

With the forth coming closure of the MGM groups doors, the MMOC and it's forum will be for the most part the last bastion dedicated solely to these cars.

I feel that this forum should be "opening it's doors to owners" not "slamming it in their face".

BTW: Will this decision also extend to the facebook page set up under the clubs name?.

Mal. Watson.

I agree with Mal on this. A lot of the content of this forum has been contributed by NON members..............

I won't be joining in the new year and think it's a shame that a few individuals have chosen to make this a private forum.

[gharper]

Have to agree

I think it will be the death of the club if the forums become members only.

I am a member, I use my Maestro van as my daily driver, and my Maestro car when the van is being worked on.

If we restrict forums then it will be hard to incentivize people to actually join the club.
At the moment the club 'promises' certain things for membership... like a club magazine. Its doesn't deliver those very often, so if the website becomes closed people will stop visiting... and the club membership will drop...and then less people will visit the site... and the membership will drop... and soon there will be no club.

[Tanya]

Facebook post

Thank you everyone for your feedback, which I will address shortly. However, in the meantime I will post what I have written on the Facebook Group:

I'm sure that many of you have visited our website and forum, so will know how useful the forum is. Also, regulars will have noticed that from 1st January 2015, only paid up members of the club will be able to access it.

The back end of the website needs to be rebuilt as it is desperately out of date and makes managing the club difficult. For example, we would like to sell spares and regalia through the website, but cannot do so with the current one. The membership is held on another database and this needs to be consolidated with the main site, which isn't possible with the current website. There are also other problems with it.

Having a well functioning owners club is hugely important to keeping a model/or models going. It serves many functions, including providing a spares service and re-manufacturing parts when appropriate. It promotes the model/s and educates the public. Of course it then provides/attends events, publishes a magazine and a runs a forum. I'm sure that there are more benefits to having a well functioning owners club, although the above is reason enough.

However, to do this costs money, and sadly despite looking, I have yet to find a money tree. We need your membership, and the income that it brings to do what a well functioning owners club should do. This isn't all about money, we do need more members to keep the club vibrant, but we do also need the income from membership.

You may have gathered that there have been some changes within the governorship of the M&MOC, and changes are happening. While transition periods and change are never easy, they are essential for this club to move forward and promote and preserve these cars. M&MOC will be considerably more active in 2015, and while not the perfect owners club, will offer a much improved service. However, our clear aim and goal is to provide an excellent owners club for Maestro & Montego owners.

To help the club to achieve this, I would urge you to consider joining the M&MOC, if you are not already a member. For December only, you can join at a significantly reduced rate of £12 per year (normally £18) which equates to £1 per month, or £20 for two years (normally £32), which equates to less than a £1 per month. These are UK prices and overseas membership prices will be similarly discounted.

From 1st January 2015, the forum will be members only and the membership prices will revert back to the usual prices. By joining the M&MOC in December, you will grab a bargain and help the club to preserve and promote these cars.

Join here - http://www.maestro.org.uk/join_us.htm

Thank you,

Tanya Field
M&MOC committee member

[Tanya]

I think it will be the death of the club if the forums become members only.

I am a member, I use my Maestro van as my daily driver, and my Maestro car when the van is being worked on.

If we restrict forums then it will be hard to incentivize people to actually join the club.
At the moment the club 'promises' certain things for membership... like a club magazine. Its doesn't deliver those very often, so if the website becomes closed people will stop visiting... and the club membership will drop...and then less people will visit the site... and the membership will drop... and soon there will be no club.

I completely agree that the club has failed previously in providing some of what it should. There are reasons for this, but these are not excuses, and yes it has been unacceptable. I am sorry that this happened.

However, there are some new members on the committee and along with the existing committee members we are determined to address the issues that you have raised in your post, and to be a useful and necessary owners club.

My role within the club is events and publicity. I'm in the process of pulling together a full and varied events calendar for the club 2015. However, for the events where we have a stand a need insurance, I can only take club members as our insurance only covers us to have club members.

For publicity, my main aim is to get Maestro & Montego into as much of the classic car press as possible, to raise its profile and encourage more people into Maestro & Montego ownership.

Given my comments and those in the Facebook post, I hope that you are able to reconsider joining the club. Generally speaking, it is an relatively inexpensive club to be a member of, and with the current price reduction on membership, it is extremely good value.

[Tanya]

I agree with Mal on this. A lot of the content of this forum has been contributed by NON members..............

I won't be joining in the new year and think it's a shame that a few individuals have chosen to make this a private forum.

Our aim, and I have explained more fully since you wrote this post is to have a strong and healthy owners club as this is the best way to ensure the preservation of Maestros and Montegos and the best way of promoting them. It is also very useful for attracting more people into Maestro & Montego ownership.

The forum is a significant asset to the club (even if it was never added to again) and we have a responsibly to use this asset wisely to the benefit of the owners club, its membership and the models that they support.

Therefore, I hope that you are able to appreciate the points that I make, and give them due consideration.

[mgt16]

Just remember the forum made the club what it is today.
You have done well by identifying the easiest source of new members but rather than using that to your advantage you're alienating them by forcing them into membership and also shutting the door on the future source of new members! It will take a long time but with no new members the club will stagnate.
I also question whether the forum will be worth paying for without the non members contributions??
As I said on Facebook if you leave the forum open I will pay full price to join the club.
Out of interest what are current members feelings on this? While they might not like paying for free loaders as such, do they see the value to the future of the club in having an open forum.

[mgt16]

Another way of looking at it is you go to a petrol station at night where they don't let you in the shop do you buy as much as you would if you could go inside and have a look around?