Re: Forum to become members only.

[Richard H]

I think the NEC stand is a good way of showing the classic car community that we are more than a load of old duffers driving stuff round that should have been scrapped years ago. we need to get the press pushing our cars, get this outdated 'clarkson' image of our cars banished for good - thats why we want the stand to 'stand out'

Better not have my car on the stand then

[Tanya]

Better not have my car on the stand then

There's always room for a good old beige Maestro, especially one with dealer fit (or replica, but they're so good you wouldn't know) number plates!

On a serious note, I feel it's getting a balance of cars, possibly including a tastefully modified car, or even one that needs work. However, we need more than a four car stand in order to be able properly represent both models and it's important that both the van and estate are represented.

I also feel it's important to see different cars on the stand each year (it's a pet hate of mine seeing the same cars on other stands at the NEC year on year), and also members, not just committee members should be exhibiting. Members should be invited to man the stand too.

Next year I'll have much longer to plan and will involve the membership with the NEC stand, as we need everyone's input and help.

[philippope]

I've had Maestros since they came out-first one was 18 months old-always favoured the MGs and restored two Maestro Turbos. The announcement did prompt me to renew membership, since over the years I have been a member and also let it lapse quite often (laziness and other interests!). I have an interest in other classic cars and am a member of one other club (TR Register) Our cars are a niche area and we are a smaller community, fewer cars surviving as years pass by. I have always visited the forum, although I don't often post-it is good to refer to and very helpful, with a variety of good folk always willing to help each other. Although the club needs funds to survive and flourish, I do believe the forum should stay open to all, as it is the first place nowadays that people look if they are even remotely interested in the cars and closing it will put people off rather than generate interest and income.

[Tanya]

On a personal note I don't care that Tanya wants to put on a club stand at the NEC to shame all others. Indeed that makes me rather concerned as I know what is involved in it all. This club was supposed to be run for its members benefit, not for someone who wants to show-boat at one particular event. How many of our members even attend the NEC?

Don't get me wrong there is nothing wrong with putting on a good show and generating positive publicity for the club and the marque, and great progress has been made in these areas of late, but it must be tempered by the need to do what is best for the members as well as the club/marque itself.

I think there has been some misunderstanding about how I view the NEC and what I want to spend on it. I do it as cheaply as possible. Having looked at how other successful clubs have done it in previous years, I realised that carpet was a must. However, the NEC charge £400 for carpet. I come from the voluntary sector, so I'm used to having no funds and so quickly worked out how to get carpet for free, which is what I did, and my plan is to do that again. That's just one example. I think this year we were one of the best value stands, making the best stand from the smallest budget. It was a great opportunity to invite Russ Swift up, and that gave us great exposure which is part of the reason for having an NEC stand.

I do feel that we cannot showcase the cars properly with a four car stand, especially as I feel that a van and estate should be included on future stands. However, getting a stand at the NEC is not a given, and is indeed getting harder. If you don't put on a good stand, you're out, along with the publicity and opportunity to showcase the cars and club to x tens of thousands. I will be putting in for a larger stand for next year, and hope that on the back of this year's significantly improved stand, that we'll get in.

So, why should this matter to the members? I've explained why it's imporant for the club, and that does link with the membership. However, where the club has failed in the past is to include the membership in all aspects of the stand from planning a theme, to volunteering cars, to helping with build up and breakdown to manning the stand, and I expect lots of other ways too. This is wrong and not in the best interests of the club or its members, and members must be included, which now I'm response for events, will happen.

[efiman]

A genuine question if I may.

How many members does the club currently have and how has this changed over say the last 10 years?

efiman

[Tanya]

A genuine question if I may.

How many members does the club currently have and how has this changed over say the last 10 years?

efiman

It's currently around the 250 mark and has been so for the past few years. By that I take it about three or four years, but I expect that one of the longer serving committee members will know.

I did ask about retention at the AGM, but those figures weren't available. I'm not sure whether it's possible or not to find that out from the current membership data base.

[Beaker]

Hi Dan,

its genuinely about getting more members in - we want the money so we can do more things. ideally this website needs a real rethink - its rubbish! we cant operate a decent club shop or spares off it.... we don't want another amateur job we want one that'll be the best about.

)

Agreed, yet I was shot down in flames when this new site was launched because I dared to call it shocking.

However you need to think about what you want to achieve and if you have the technical expertise to fulfil it.

Professional web designers are expensive, and if you go down that route you will also be required to pay for additional support,upgrades, etc which to be brutally honest the club can't afford.

Has anyone approached the membership asking about the website and if anyone has the expertise to re-design/maintain it?

The R200/400 Site runs off a content management system and the whole committee/membership could update if they so desired. No one does. Recently the host of that site updated the version of PHP and I had to spend a few hours fixing the websites because of this that same weekend.

What would you the committee do in this situation? You have paid for a website but we could not not afford 24/7 support meaning club downtime.

This site runs off VBulletin I suggest upgrading and using more of its inbuilt features like the subscription ability (a web only subscription would make life much easier). Someone said they are approaching web designers, I assume a defined tender has been written specifying what is required? If so can I take a look and pass comment. Has someone done some research into other sites to look at different available features?

Using Joomla (Content Mangement System) and a professional purchased template a new website can be knocked up over a weekend. Installing JFusion will link the vbulletin membership database to the website. It is the content that takes time - who plans to deliver the content?

Some other comments:

Dan has mentioned quite a few ideas that I applied to the 200/400 club that worked well for generating income that I agree with in the other thread. Web subscription only memberships I suggest is the way forward.

One other radical idea is to liquidise the spares - is anyone ever going to have the time to maintain a shop, and catalogue/audit spares. It is a full time job - how many of us are retired and have the time? Not to mention storage space costs money.

[E_T_V]

It's currently around the 250 mark and has been so for the past few years. By that I take it about three or four years, but I expect that one of the longer serving committee members will know.

I did ask about retention at the AGM, but those figures weren't available. I'm not sure whether it's possible or not to find that out from the current membership data base.

I wrote down the available figures last night (Yes I'm that sad) next to my other halfs PC. I'll try and post them up later tonight.

It seems to have taken a bit of a dive in the last year or so it seems. It was reasonably stable about 275 for many years I think. I'll check tonight though.

[Guest]

This decision to change the format of the web forum sounds awfully like something BL would have done, and look at what happened to it. They ceased trading. This is so sad.

[E_T_V]

I wrote down the available figures last night (Yes I'm that sad) next to my other halfs PC. I'll try and post them up later tonight.

It seems to have taken a bit of a dive in the last year or so it seems. It was reasonably stable about 275 for many years I think. I'll check tonight though.

Sorry correction @240 members for the last 4 years.

All figures exclude honorary memberships (usually trade press etc)
2001 - 179
2002 - ???
2003 - ~220
2004 - 271
2005 - 310
2006 - ???
2007 - 245
2008 - 258
2009 - 271
2010 - 243
2011 - 232
2012 - 244
2013 - 231
2014 - ???

And attached is a pretty graph. Someone with more info than me can probably fill in some of the missing gaps.

My other half and I were actively involved in the club from approx. 2003-2006. I left the committee and eventually left the forum for a year due to various reasons but essentially it boiled down to certain committee members being idiots and I wasn't prepared to put up with it. I went off and built 1 maestro turbo, 2 websites, 1 modified campervan, and bought a T16 turbo too and then helped start a car club for them too. Since then I've lurked on this forum attending a few events etc but put no real effort into helping the club as non of the ideas I put forward then made any progress whilst I was away so put the effort into a club where efforts were appreciated. Call me selfish but once bitten - twice shy.

[H48HPE]

Thanks for that Dan, that's quite interesting - to see it like that.

to be fair, I think we're doing quite well on the membership front - to have held fairly steady figures over that period, maybe someone with some more time could compare how many cars are actually left on the road (how many left website) with our membership. the amount of cars on the road will be a significant limiting factor - some without cars may join for a year just out of interest; but not be long term...

I've not got time to check now but roughly how many road legal maestros and montegos are out there?

Andy

[E_T_V]

Yes the club has been static in terms of members for quite a few years so there is no dire urgency to make sweeping changes as the club is financially viable, (although I whole heartedly agree changes are needed to move the club forward).

[countrydude]

Given the best website and the best stand design in the world, we are still talking about maestros and montegos, they are never going to crossover into the mass market. Spend all the money you want, but I doubt a massive resurgence for a unloved brittish car is going to appear as you seem to believe.

Obviously I'm here and think our cause is very cool, understated etc. But I have an objective view on life that allows me to see truth here.

Excluding any percentage of your current members, paying or not is a massive gamble that I can't see anyone benefitting from. Also making the forum private google will be blocked from displaying any results so you'd miss your hits from new owners.

If this does go ahead though I want all my posts deleted as I don't want any info I posted on a public forum to be hidden away in a private forum. I intended it to be for the good of any maestro/montego owner, not exclusively paid members of this forum.

[Guest]

Thanks for that Dan, that's quite interesting - to see it like that.

to be fair, I think we're doing quite well on the membership front - to have held fairly steady figures over that period, maybe someone with some more time could compare how many cars are actually left on the road (how many left website) with our membership. the amount of cars on the road will be a significant limiting factor - some without cars may join for a year just out of interest; but not be long term...

I've not got time to check now but roughly how many road legal maestros and montegos are out there?

Andy

You cannot use the "How Many Left" website to find a "true" result for surviving cars.

It is wholly inaccurate, and has been from it's inception.

You will however, find that there are more cars surviving than Members, as the "Forum Users" cars will take the number beyond that of members.

Many people have more than one, granted some are spares cars too far gone to restore, but others also have several road going cars and projects that will return to the road.

The only way to get a true idea of surviving cars is to "Bug" DVLA until they send you the full details via a freedom of Information request.

The Rover 800 forum did this, and after a while of constant request's, DVLA sent the forum rep everything they had up to a set date, showing everything they have on the 800 series, and every variation of the way they were registered, so that a true production/survivor number could be calculated.

Maybe something the club could undertake?, but it will demand a lot of time to go through as it will likely be a very large file!.

[E_T_V]

If people want data analysed then I can assist if required as I've had to learn to do it as part of my current job.

If someone did me a download of the forum user database (without personal info included), then I could do some number crunching. You can remove username too, to make the users anonymous if you prefer. I could manually do it but it would take me an age of copy/paste to get the data.

The same goes for DLVA data. If someone supplies me the file (after getting it of course), I can try and extract stuff from it.