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anyone got that diagnostic kit?

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  • anyone got that diagnostic kit?

    Hi everybody!

    ive not posted on here for a while due to my car being off the road, and genraly not being too enthusiastic about it either due to the problems i had with it last year. Well things have changed now, i got the beast back on the road on wednesday and seeing as ive had this week off work ive spent all the time i can driving it. anywhere! i had a problem with it last year where it just wouldnt run right but that turned out to be the main and fuel relays playing up. since they were changed the car seems to be pretty much sorted, but when i took it for mot matey said it was running too weak (better than too rich i know!). Its fitted with a pipercross filter and standard bore stainless fronpipe and larger bore tailpipe, and when i adjust the intake butterfly to 0.0015in as per the haynes manual it idles at about 2500rpm. To be honest im abit lost on these cars, give me points and an su and im ok! I think all it needs is pluging into one of those austin rover diagnostic-tuning thingeys. Question is, has anybody got the kit? im in reigate, surrey and i dont mind abit of a journey to finaly get it sorted out by someone who knows what hes doing. when i say abit of a journey, i dont mean hundreds of miles away (hopfully)
    btw, its a h-plate 2.0 efi.

  • #2
    Hello Maestromaxi, you can adjust the idle mixture on your car. The mixture screw is on the throttle body just in front of the stepper motor. It is an air bleed and only affects idle mixture so donít expect it to make a big difference to performance. To richen the mixture you will need to turn the screw clockwise, it will probably take a full turn to take the CO setting from 0.75 up to the 2.5 max.

    If you are having problems with erratic idle speed you could reset the base idle. I would normally recommend cleaning the throttle body out before you do this. The best way is to remove the throttle body and unscrew the stepper motor, then give it a good clean with carb cleaner to remove all the gunk that accumulates. You will probably find the small breather port needs unblocking as it is nearly always blocked.

    To set the base idle the engine needs to be hot. Then you need to ensure the stepper motor is fully closed (there is a special tool for this) but you can do it by using the following method.

    Turn on the ignition and wait 10 seconds then remove the stepper motor plug, then turn off the ignition and wait 30 seconds or until you hear the main relay click out. Then replace the stepper motor plug and turn on the ignition and wait 10 seconds, and then remove the stepper motor plug again. Turn off the ignition and wait 30 seconds etc. Then repeat once more this will ensure the stepper motor is fully closed. With the stepper motor plug disconnected start the engine and set the idle speed to 650rpm with the throttle stop screw. Then replace the stepper motor plug.

    After setting the base idle you will need to reset the throttle potentiometer with a voltmeter to read 325mv output with the throttle closed with ignition on.

    Once you have done this with engine at normal temperature set the CO to 2% with the screw on the throttle body nearest the stepper motor, thatís if you have access to a gas analyser of course.

    If the engine still stalls when coming to a halt it could be a faulty road speed transducer. To test the transducer disconnect the harness plug and connect an ohm meter across the transducer wires. Then jack up one wheel and rotate the wheel observing the reading on the meter, it should fluctuate between 0 ohms & open circuit.

    Regards Gary

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    • #3
      Nice one! Sounds abit longwinded but ill give it a go, ive got a volt meter and i think my uncles got a gas anilyser so i could be in luck there. The car runs fine, appart from the high idle speed and the fact that it might be running abit weak, so i doubt theres any problems with any sensors.

      thanks again, ill give it all a clean up this evening and if ive got time ill give it the tune up, not too late tho, dont want to **** the neighbours off (again!)

      Comment


      • #4
        Right, yesterday i took the throttle housing off and it was FULL of the black stuff, so i gave it a proper clean up with carb cleaner and put it back on. On start up there was a noted improvement in the idle of the car and it seemed to pick better. I got my uncles gas anilizer and stuck that on the car, after it had warmed up and it was reading 10.25, so i followed the instructions as far as setting the fuel potentimeter (didnt have a mv reader) and no matter what i tried i couldnt get it to drop below 9.75 (it should max 2.5). There is a chance that the meter is faulty because the car passed its mot immisions and was slightly lean, but the meter is brand new, unused gunsons one, about 10 years old.
        i think im starting to fight a loosing battle trying to do this my self because i think there may be some thing wrong somewhere, and i dont know these cars well enough to know when too start looking. is there anybody out there who knows what there doing who could take a look at it for me?

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi I would say that your uncles meter is not calibrated correctly or faulty, given that your car recently passed an mot and it was mentioned it was running lean. There is not really anything you can do to cause it to run rich by cleaning the throttle body out, it would if anything be more likely to run a little leaner on idle.

          If you have sorted the high idle problem what other symptoms are you experiencing?

          Gary

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          • #6
            Pop into your MOT station and offer the tester a drink to stick is probe up your exhaust.

            Which garage do you test at?

            Comment


            • #7
              The gunsons meter had to be run for 10 minuits with the probe in mid air to get it calibrated and setteled to 2.0. We did this and as soon as it went up the exhaust it went straight to 10+. Its got a rev counter on it too which works fine, but in hindsight maybe we should have tested on his car, which we know runs well.

              when i took it for a quick run after id fiddled with it, when you slow back down, in gear, to about 1500 revs it sort of 'lurches'. when you put your foot back on the throttle it goes. it idles abit high now, but i can sort that out, it smells abit rich on idle too and the exhaust is well sooted up after 2 days thrashing about, but it doesnt seem to use a huge amount of fuel considering how much it smells. The plugs and leads are recent so there not at fault, but it just doesnt seem to be burning fuel properly.
              as far as performance goes the majority of the time t seems quite underpowered, and then without warning it will take off like a loon.
              also, idle isnt consistant, some times it idles a little fast, others a bit slower, but its not what youd call eratic.

              I think thats it covered.

              Oh, it was tested at auto services, horley. Ive known them for a while so i dont suppose theyd mind me popping down there to get the probe shoved up there for 5 mins, but theres definatly something not quite right there and i dont thing theyve got the stuff to do it properly.

              *EDIT*
              When id finnished working on it it was idleing a bit fast (about 1200), yet when i left it for a couple of hours this afternoon to cool down, then restarted it it idled too slow (about 700-800), and gradualy got faster while it warmed up, And it FLEW down the lanes
              Last edited by maestromaxi; 10th June 2006, 19:53.

              Comment


              • #8
                Hi, once you have the co level checked let us know what you find.

                Inconsistant idle: once you have cleaned the throttle body you must set the base idle speed as I described earier. I know it sounds long winded but it is pretty straight forward once you have got the gist of whats happening. All you are doing is making sure the stepper motor fully closes the air valve.

                Inconsistant idle & lurching (shunting) off the throttle on overrun: When ever you turn the throttle stop screw to adjust base idle you must then reset the throttle pot to 325mv thats 0.325v output with the throttle closed. You have to do this because this is how the ecu knows exactly where the throttle butterfly is at all times. The ecu needs this information to accurately determine how much fuel to inject and how to control the idle speed.

                Lurching: You should also double check the new plugs are gapped at 0.040in thats 1mm. Plugs gapped too narrow will cause light throttle shunting.

                Lack of power: Having the injectors cleaned with the pressurised type cleaners will have a noticeable effect on performance.

                Regards Gary

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thanks again for all that, youve just finaly explained to me what does what and why, in a way that i understand (well, at least its going to be easier for me to tune it now ) I'll get the emisions checked as soon as i can and ill get back to you

                  btw ive cured the lurching, i turned the throttle pot clockwise and its using alot less fuel now, but its now quite underpowered, so ill try and find a middle ground before i do any damage

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by maestromaxi
                    btw ive cured the lurching, i turned the throttle pot clockwise and its using alot less fuel now, but its now quite underpowered, so ill try and find a middle ground before i do any damage
                    Good news that but I can't stress enough how important it is to get the throttle pot setting exact 0.325v +/- 0.010v as this setting is critical to correct idle & fueling.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Cheers mate, i fully understand that, but only since you put that other post up lol. Since ive been messing with the adjustment screw by the stepper motor and i now have no idea where it is, so what would be the best thing to do prior to adjustment? Fully clockwise or fully anti clockwise?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by maestromaxi
                        Since ive been messing with the adjustment screw by the stepper motor and i now have no idea where it is, so what would be the best thing to do prior to adjustment? Fully clockwise or fully anti clockwise?
                        Hi the best thing to do before setting the throttle pot is set the base idle correctly, the way I describe earlier.

                        To set the base idle the engine needs to be hot. Then you need to ensure the stepper motor is fully closed (there is a special tool for this) but you can do it by using the following method.

                        Turn on the ignition and wait 10 seconds then remove the stepper motor plug, then turn off the ignition and wait 30 seconds or until you hear the main relay click out. Then replace the stepper motor plug and turn on the ignition and wait 10 seconds, and then remove the stepper motor plug again. Turn off the ignition and wait 30 seconds etc. Then repeat once more this will ensure the stepper motor is fully closed. With the stepper motor plug disconnected start the engine and set the idle speed to 650rpm with the throttle stop screw. Then replace the stepper motor plug.

                        After setting the base idle you will need to reset the throttle potentiometer with a voltmeter to read 325mv output with the throttle closed with ignition on.

                        Gary

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Ah ha! i get ya!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by maestromaxi
                            Ah ha! i get ya!


                            No seriously you need to be as acurate as you possibly can when setting up this system as even when it was brand new and set up perfectly it would still display the odd anomaly. Maybe lucas should have given the ecu an omega 3 suppliment to improve its concentration and behaviour

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              lol! yeah, i guess that would have helped!

                              Ive just been sent home from work earley, something to do with football aparently What a perfect excuse to go out and work on the car! ive just managed to get a multimeter off a mate of mine so when this football thing starts, ill be out side, as far away from tv or radio as i can!

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