2.0GSi Not Starting...

[D87SMW]

Hi guys,

Have been using my Montego 2.0 GSi since the weekend for a trip to Blackpool and to get to work yesterday, as well as an evening run for Lucy to get used to reversing - so it got hot enough for the fan to come on once or twice, but no problems.

Until this morning when I was setting off for work, when it would spin great but just not fire up at all - not even a cough. It is getting fuel at the rail, but doing nothing with it. The distributor and rotor have been cleaned up but I don't think there's any spark. Would it be worth changing the coil, or is there anything else I could try?

Just a bit disappointing as I've not had any problems with it 'til now and it ran great over the weekend...

[Oli]

I'd be checking the rotor arm

[E_T_V]

Rotor arm would be the most likely suspect. Check to see if a a spark is getting to the distributor. Then check to see if one is coming out. If not then you know where the fault lies.

[G Force]

Hi Steve

You can also test the rotor arm in the following way.

You can test the rotor arm by holding the end of the coil HT lead (with insulated pliers) 10mm away from the centre of the rotor arm & crank the engine. If you get a spark jumping to the centre of the rotor arm, then the rotor arm is faulty.

Before you check the rotor arm a quick question can you hear the stepper motor rattling when you first turn on the ignition & then again when you turn off? If not then the EFI main relay is faulty.

Cheers, Gary

[D87SMW]

Cheers for the advice given.

The stepper motor rattles when turned on and off and the fuel pump primes enough to shift fuel from the pipe.

Have tried cranking with a plug out to test for spark, of which there is none. There's no spark when holding the lead against the rotor arm and none when linking a spark plug directly from the coil. I've also tried a different coil, but it seems like power might not even be getting that far.

There's no fuel on the spark plugs either, would this shut off when there's no spark to prevent flooding or something? Have tried the cut-off switch behind the radio also, but I'm just not getting anywhere...

[threelitre]

As said - change the rotor arm!

[E_T_V]

If you peel back the boot from the king lead (the one from the coil to the distributor) and place it near (~5mm) something metal (engine block). When cranking does a spark jump the gap. If not then there is an issue with the coil (or the wiring to it).

Does the fuel pump run when the engine is cranked?

[G Force]

There's no spark when holding the lead against the rotor arm and none when linking a spark plug directly from the coil. I've also tried a different coil, but it seems like power might not even be getting that far.

There's no fuel on the spark plugs either, would this shut off when there's no spark to prevent flooding or something? Have tried the cut-off switch behind the radio also, but I'm just not getting anywhere...

Hi Steve

Good work so far Steve and good feed back.

At this stage it does sound like you have no spark at all as long as when you checked the spark plug direct from coil you had the plug body touching a good earth.

The next check would be to have a look at the crank sensor plug wires down the back of the engine, remove the plug and look for moisture, dirt or other contamination. Check the connector pins are secure in the plug body and the wires are not broken by rolling back the rubber boot on the plug to examine them.

If you have a spare ignition ECU then you can try that to rule in or out that being the problem.

If you have a multi meter then there are some tests you can do on the wiring more easily.

You are correct about the system being able to prevent flooding in the event that it doesn't start straight away, but as you seem to have no spark due to the low tension circuit the injectors would not be injecting as they need a signal from the ignition ECU to work.

Cheers, Gary

[threelitre]

Oh, I was a bit too quick with my last reply. On a Rover 114 (Metro for you), I had the same problem. After checking for non-working rotor arm (can break internally, similar to O-series Maestro/Montego), the crank sensor and the coil, it turned out that the ECU did not charge the coil anymore.

So Gary's path would have worked for me in this case...

Regards,
Alexander

[D87SMW]

Have been investigating again tonight with the help of local enthusiast Mike Dees. Strangely the car started on the first turn, but cut out again after 20 seconds...

We've tested for feed to the coil and were not sure as to whether the Blue and White wires from the crank sensor to the ballast resistor (and an enclosed, black plastic box above this) should both be live when tested with a multimeter - only the blue wire was producing a constant beep.

Thinking about it though, should the crank sensor only produce a pulse down that wire at precise moments when turning? And if the crank sensor is at fault, would it prevent any power going to the coil?

Also, would it be common for the ballast resistor on the side of the engine bay (which the blue and white wires connect to) to fail?

[G Force]

Have been investigating again tonight with the help of local enthusiast Mike Dees. Strangely the car started on the first turn, but cut out again after 20 seconds...]

Hi Steve.

Was this cut out due to no spark again

[We've tested for feed to the coil and were not sure as to whether the Blue and White wires from the crank sensor to the ballast resistor (and an enclosed, black plastic box above this) should both be live when tested with a multimeter - only the blue wire was producing a constant beep.]

The coil should have battery voltage at the white wire and no less than 1V below battery voltage on the white / black wire with ignition on.

The blue / white wire to engine speed resistor is the engine speed signal from the programmed ignition ECU to the fuel injection ECU, should not really have any influence on the ignition operation, however it would prevent the injectors from operating if the resistor was faulty. The value of the resistor should be 6.8 Kohms.

Crank sensor wires blue / white and blue / purple run directly from the ignition ECU. There is a small reference voltage super imposed onto the wires but the crank sensor pulse amplifies the voltage.

[Thinking about it though, should the crank sensor only produce a pulse down that wire at precise moments when turning? And if the crank sensor is at fault, would it prevent any power going to the coil?]

If the crank sensor or its wiring is faulty you would still have coil voltage but the coil would not switch on and off. Yes there would be no pulsing signal if there was a crank sensor / wiring fault. The crank sensor does not often go wrong, it is usually the wiring.

[Also, would it be common for the ballast resistor on the side of the engine bay (which the blue and white wires connect to) to fail?

If the resistor value is correct then there is no problem with the resistor.


Do some more investigations as I described with the crank sensor you could measure the continuity of the wires from the ignition ECU down to the crank sensor plug. If you have any spare ignition ECU it will do to substitute the one on the car to check if the cars ECU is faulty

[D87SMW]

Had another mechanic friend of mine round last night having a look at this. We tested continuity of the wiring to the crank sensor and found that the engine would actually start up and run when the meter was plugged into the Ignition Control Unit plug for the crank sensor wires (Blue and White/Blue). Removing the meter caused the engine to die off...

Luckily I was able to dig out a spare ICU and lo and behold, it runs fine again!

[G Force]

Had another mechanic friend of mine round last night having a look at this. We tested continuity of the wiring to the crank sensor and found that the engine would actually start up and run when the meter was plugged into the Ignition Control Unit plug for the crank sensor wires (Blue and White/Blue). Removing the meter caused the engine to die off...

Luckily I was able to dig out a spare ICU and lo and behold, it runs fine again!

Hi Steve

That's good to hear! All's well that ends well then.

Just one question for my piece of mind Steve, Not that it matters but I started to question myself as to the system that is on your car. Is it Lucas Hot Wire? Black ignition ECU and Injection ECU in N/S/F footwell. I believe on an 89 GSI it could be either hot wire or MEM's.

Thanks, Gary

[D87SMW]

Dead again. Thankfully on the drive now and not at the roadside, but still not impressed. The replacement ICU worked perfectly and instantly, enabling me to drive it 10 mins home...Now there's nothing again. It's not MEMs. Regular black boxes. Will get photos...

[G Force]

Dead again. Thankfully on the drive now and not at the roadside, but still not impressed. The replacement ICU worked perfectly and instantly, enabling me to drive it 10 mins home...Now there's nothing again. It's not MEMs. Regular black boxes. Will get photos...

Oh no! Steve that's not good. Is it no spark at all again?

Cheers, Gary