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1986 Austin Montego EFi with cold start issues

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  • 1986 Austin Montego EFi with cold start issues

    I currently have my Montego with an auto electrician but he's struggling to find the time to work on it and wants me to collect it before he gets too involved.

    Its all very frustrating, so was wondered if anyone on here could possibly give me some steer? Here's a summary of where I am at:

    The car has a ballast resistor under the coil but when this is wired correctly, (two wires) it runs very poorly and will not rev. You cannot also hear the fuel pump prime.

    With the fuel Fast Check connected in this correct set-up, the following lights do not come on - injectors, coolant and air flow meter. Both throttle pot lights are on, so suggest this is set-up correctly.

    Currently the only way to get it running reasonably well is to bypass the resistor and run the wire straight to the coil. This then makes the fuel pump prime constantly.

    The car will start from cold but needs some revs to prevent it stalling as it ticks over at 400rpm and slowly increases to about 1000rpm when hot.

    I believe if all is correct, the fuel pump should prime for 2-3 secs and the car start without throttle to 1100rpm and dial down to about 700rpm when hot. Its never though done this in the three years I have owned the car.

    Car did over 400 miles last weekend to Gaydon and passed an MOT on emissions with CO at 3.32% (max 3.50) and HC at 283 ppm (max 1200)

    Basically the car runs OK when warm but feels like its lacking some initial pick-up, suggesting either a weak spark or low fuel pressure?

    Work completed and parts replaced:

    All breather hoses
    Head gasket
    Manifold gasket
    Stepper motor
    Coolant temp sender
    Ballast resistor
    Fuel and main relays
    Fuel injectors professionally cleaned and flow tested
    Full service including spark plugs and fuel filter
    Uprated fuel pressure regulator (refitted the standard one as it doesn't seem to make a difference)

    Can anyone offer any more advice based on this description or at least what I should be asking an auto electrician or mechanic to check. Any help is really appreciated.

  • #2
    Injectors should light up when you press that button, if not injector fault in that system.
    If you connect the ballast resistor and that makes the car run poorly then that is possibly your issue around that sort of area bypassing it only masks it.
    when ignition is on voltage is through the closed inertia switch to the fuel pump relay, the fuel ecu at pin 18 and the ignition ecu energises the fuel pump relay and volts are through the ballast resistor.
    You may either have a wiring fault or ecu issue on either the fuel one or ignition one if the wiring is found to be not at fault.
    When the car starts the solenoid bypasses the resistor and from the sound of it that's what's happening and why it was bypassed.

    Have you read the instructions for the fast check and used it with the ballast connected?
    Last edited by Jeff Turbo; 25th July 2024, 12:53.
    1958 Ford Consul Convertible. I love this car
    1965 Ford Zodiac Executive. Fab cruiser being restored
    1997 Jaguar Xk8 Convertible. Such a fab car
    2004 MGZT cdti. Great workhorse
    2004 MGZT V8. Black now with new engine and gearbox

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi Jeff. Thanks for this. After an unsuccessful (two) visits to an auto electrician who said he had no time to investigate, I seem to have found a classic car garage that sounds like they are getting to the bottom of the problem:

      I had a quick look at the Montego today. First thing was to correct the wiring to the ballast resistor (the blue & red from the relay and the white & green that was on the coil positive) & remove the small black bodge wire. With that done there was good spark but, as you say, no indication of the pump doing anything. I checked the wiring to the fuel pump relay (main feed ok, ignition on feed ok, wires to ECU ok) and then tried shorting the relay ground at the ECU plug to earth, that brought the pump to life but it wouldn’t start. I then checked the main EFi relay (the original looking silver one by the coil) and found it to be faulty. I didn’t have a twin outlet relay on the shelf so made up a test loom and connected a spare single output relay, the car started first time on the key, took a little while to come up to a good idle rpm but that may be related to the ECU having to learn about the idle speed (the Idle Air Control valve is exactly the same part as used on the Chevrolet C4 Crossfire TBI system, that has to go over 30mph to reset the idle speed). I’ve ordered a new relay, it might be here tomorrow but certainly by Monday. I’ll see what the car does with a cold start in the morning.

      Comment


      • #4
        Glad you're finally getting there. This is the correct fuel pump relay AFU2913 available from Rimmers you may want to order two and replace both https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-AFU2913L but use the cheaper version https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-AFU2913LP
        Did say at Gaydon that maybe the wrong relay
        Last edited by Jeff Turbo; 29th July 2024, 13:46.
        1958 Ford Consul Convertible. I love this car
        1965 Ford Zodiac Executive. Fab cruiser being restored
        1997 Jaguar Xk8 Convertible. Such a fab car
        2004 MGZT cdti. Great workhorse
        2004 MGZT V8. Black now with new engine and gearbox

        Comment


        • #5
          Another update from the garage:

          The relay turned up and worked as I would have expected, fuel pump primes, engine starts. It has a low cold idle so I think I am going to have to check through the various sensors with the plug in tool you left. It does warm up quickly and smooth out and driving it from cold is also ok. I don’t expect it to take much time, just ran out of that today doing another job so will look at it in the morning and let you know what I come up with.

          Comment


          • #6
            Have a search for resetting the idle. Gary put something up a few years ago
            1958 Ford Consul Convertible. I love this car
            1965 Ford Zodiac Executive. Fab cruiser being restored
            1997 Jaguar Xk8 Convertible. Such a fab car
            2004 MGZT cdti. Great workhorse
            2004 MGZT V8. Black now with new engine and gearbox

            Comment


            • #7
              I think he's got the guide to this from the workshop manual

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Wild Bill View Post
                I think he's got the guide to this from the workshop manual
                No that's not correct, Gary was a top guy at the time and knew much more than the book.
                I don't think he's about any longer as he was disabled and I think he passed away during COVID but his advice was top notch and I and many more couldn't fault it. He knew loads that couldn't be found in any book.
                Last edited by Jeff Turbo; 30th July 2024, 18:24.
                1958 Ford Consul Convertible. I love this car
                1965 Ford Zodiac Executive. Fab cruiser being restored
                1997 Jaguar Xk8 Convertible. Such a fab car
                2004 MGZT cdti. Great workhorse
                2004 MGZT V8. Black now with new engine and gearbox

                Comment


                • #9
                  Did he post under G-Force? I have seen this guide and the mechanic has a printed version with the car: https://maestro.org.uk/forums/forum/...etting?t=21427

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Wild Bill View Post
                    Did he post under G-Force? I have seen this guide and the mechanic has a printed version with the car: https://maestro.org.uk/forums/forum/...etting?t=21427
                    Yes that's Gary
                    1958 Ford Consul Convertible. I love this car
                    1965 Ford Zodiac Executive. Fab cruiser being restored
                    1997 Jaguar Xk8 Convertible. Such a fab car
                    2004 MGZT cdti. Great workhorse
                    2004 MGZT V8. Black now with new engine and gearbox

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Spoke to the mechanic again. He's set the throttle pot as per the guide and car runs very well when warm. Still idles low though when cold. Potentially the issue lies with the wiring to the stepper as not sure this is operating from cold. Its slow progress as he can only work/test first thing when the engine is stone cold

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Wild Bill View Post
                        Spoke to the mechanic again. He's set the throttle pot as per the guide and car runs very well when warm. Still idles low though when cold. Potentially the issue lies with the wiring to the stepper as not sure this is operating from cold. Its slow progress as he can only work/test first thing when the engine is stone cold
                        Getting there slowly then but at least getting there
                        1958 Ford Consul Convertible. I love this car
                        1965 Ford Zodiac Executive. Fab cruiser being restored
                        1997 Jaguar Xk8 Convertible. Such a fab car
                        2004 MGZT cdti. Great workhorse
                        2004 MGZT V8. Black now with new engine and gearbox

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Yup, I hope so. Went and drove the car today. Still an issue when cold but when up to temp it idled at 700rpm and pulled well. The relay primes briefly and the stepper makes a noise when the ignition is switched on and off. Mechanic pulled the breather off the inlet that goes to the ecu and strangely didn't effect the running at all. He thinks something might be blocked here? Hopefully a simple fix as otherwise it could be the stepper wiring causing something

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Slow progress. Here's an update from the mechanic. Is he correct about the stepper motor? After you were last in I did a few checks but have had a few other things taking my attention this week. I am going to get back on it tomorrow to see if I can track the fault down. I checked the wiring from the ECU plug to the stepper, each of the 2 circuits showed a resistance rather than open circuit so I know they are ok. I also checked the circuit through the temperature sender and that was ok too. I removed the stepper to see what it was doing when ignition was turned on and off, when turned on the motor pushed the pintle out, closing the idle valve, and when turned off it retracted it, opening the valve. In my head this is the opposite of what I would expect. I’d like to check that the wiring from the ECU is correct in the plug but this information is extremely hard to uncover, I need a full and detailed wiring diagram with connector numbers at the plugs. The Corvette I keep mentioning had a similar, a previous mechanic had ‘repaired’ the wiring to one of the steppers but it was wired wrong.

                            I’ll be in touch,

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Ignition ECU plug details
                              Attached Files
                              1958 Ford Consul Convertible. I love this car
                              1965 Ford Zodiac Executive. Fab cruiser being restored
                              1997 Jaguar Xk8 Convertible. Such a fab car
                              2004 MGZT cdti. Great workhorse
                              2004 MGZT V8. Black now with new engine and gearbox

                              Comment

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