BLOG MY RIDE: Rally MG Maestro 1600 - Car B

[John C]

i.e. the Aeroquip hoses have always smelt of petrol?

Aeroquip has always done this - the Rover SD1 stinks of petrol smells till its running. Works TR8s were just the same.

[John C]

I need to check what fuel line is in the car as the braided rubber-lined stuff often leaves a residual smell (either of petrol or of the pipe itself) inside the cabin apparently. Other types of braided fuel hose don't do this and so should be used instead, according to this thread:

Braided fuel hose, what type is required
http://www.britishrally.co.uk/forum/...p?f=11&t=43141

[John C]

Here are the latest photos of the car:
https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=b2bd7...!327&sc=photos

The decals are nearly all sourced from eBay and are intended to broadly create 'period livery', but not necessarily replicate exactly any particular car from the early 80s.

[John C]

The latest update from Chris is that the faulty Elec fuel pump has been replaced with another one but the unions are weeping so they will be reconnected after wrapping with PTFE tape. A fuel pressure regulator has also a been installed (set to 3psi).

The oil will be flushed & changed next week (and additive put in).

[John C]

Just spoken to Nick and his latest advice was as follows:
-Loose Timing chains sound a lot worse than they are. They might make a din rattling on the metal cover but the amount of slack is probably quite small. It might be possible to fabricate a wedge to tension it up again.
-The loose timing chain will give 'variable valve timing' and this may in fact enhance power by advancing the timing
-By removing the rocker cover one could check how many degrees of slack the chain has, and take a view from there
-The engine's low compression readings may not be too far off given that the Comp Test was done without a wide-open throttle, the engine will be somewhat worn, and it is of 1970s design (modern engines have far higher compression than mills from this era)
-The engine starts straight away, responds crisply, revs up and produces decent power so it can't be too badly worn/off-song
-A full assessment of the engine will be needed before coming to any conclusions about its state or faults; we do not have the full info on it yet.
-Best advice is to just keep on using this engine until it stops working/goes bang and then rebuild/replace it

[John C]

I visited CLASS RACING again last week and washed the car. Having washed the Maestro, I noticed that the roof was starting to have pinprick rust spots, so I've supplied a new cover from Halfords for whenever it's outside.

I had a few problems starting it up. It got going eventually but sounds rather rough and was cutting out when I pressed the throttle.

I was there for 2-3 hours and put 90% of the decals on the car. It's looking pretty good now -just 2 bonnet decals to go now which I hope to do on Fri.

The only problem with decals is that they will need to be covered up for Gymkhanas, but they could be painted over with white water soluble paint (which will then wash off) or covered up with white vinyl squares (the non adhesive type) affixed with white insulation tape.

A Gymkhana also needs an MOT, but this can be solved as below. If so, this means that the likes of Butho can drive it to events (at least until he can pass his DVLA Trailer Test). If the Maestro's lights are blanked off/taped over then it should get through but with ADVISORIES saying 'for Daytime use only' according to this thread (which you will need to register on the forum to be able to read):
Anyone come across a "Daytime only MOT"
http://www.britishrally.co.uk/forum/...891a73b316dc60

I spotted a head gasket for an MG Maestro 1600 on eBay for £8 inc delivery so I've mail ordered this through to CR (just so that they have one to hand in time for the car's next outing 20 Jan 12, in case they want to remove the head to see what's going on inside the engine)

I'm back there again on Fri 9 Dec (press event), and Chris is hoping to do more on the car after this event.

This show might be interested in having the Maestro in the display hall or on the demo Rally Stage (but you can't do both) http://www.raceretro.com/

I may also see if these mags are interested in doing something on it in due course:
http://www.retrocarsmag.com/
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk/

[John C]

The blue jobs are those that do need to be done before the car's next outing (Aldershot forest test day on approx 21 Jan 12); the rest of the jobs can be done as & when there's time in due course...

-See if replacement Fuel pump cures the petrol leak
-Consider replacing the rubber fuel hose with copper or braided
-Add Valvemaster to the fuel currently in the tank
-Investigate rough running issue (probably a misfire). Consider replacing HT leads and/or distributor cap/rotor arm. It may be caused/exacerbated by the slack in the timing chain (which may also be a factor in the 'low-compression' problem)
-Check timing with a light to ensure it’s OK for 95 Octane unleaded (or adjust as required for a Maestro’s normal diet of 97 Octane 4 Star).
-Set carbs up & balance on Rolling Road
-Fit an Alu sheet over the top of the spare wheel well (to cover up fuel pump).
-Repeat the compresstion test (this time with the throttle held fully open), and note each cylinder's reading
-Put oil down bores and re-check the compression (to see it it is the valves that are leaking). An engine's compression is normally about 10:1 so any car ought to give about 150psi (but Chris has not yet checked in the manual what it should be).
-Do a cylinder leak test (I'm told that a cylinder leakage test is a far more accurate way of measuring losses, and will tell you if the problem is 'cyl head gasket' or 'piston' related, or if it's not leaking down that badly after all.
-Put an oil flush product in and then change oil to a suitable classic motorsport oil (I have mail ordered this to CR at CEME)
-Put the AMETECH 'ENGINE RESTORE' product into the oil (hoping to monitor the effect of this long term e.g. on compression readings in months to come)

-Label the fuel pump "on/off"
-Raise the rear window (it is 1" open on one side). N.B. The winder appears to be disconnected and the glass won't slide when pushed up.
-Investigate the 'pull to the left' under engine braking (if you accelerate hard and then come abruptly off the gas it does it)
-N/S rear cylinder was stuck (now freed off), but could do with a new cylinder in due course.
-Rear brake shoe Linings starting to come off on one side; OK for one more event, but need to replace it thereafter (and both sides will be changed to ensure there isn’t a braking imbalance).
-Needs some Welding around rear arches (fairly minimal though). It’s not on a stress point or the suspension mounting etc. so should be OK for another event.
-Re-affix the rear spoiler (black rubber) on the boot where it has come adrift on the bottom LHS
-Replace the light clusters at the rear (and also at the front)?
-Tidy up the loose wiring hanging down beneath the front air dam
-See if elec dash can be made to work

[John C]

Spoke to Graham on Friday and we discussed buying another engine I've been offered, as he believes the timing chain will break on this engine eventually.

One option would be to remove the head, see what's causing the low compression and then re-fit the head so that the car's ready for its next event. We would then know what's wrong with this engine and could make a decision on whether to buy this other engine (and the only cost would be a another head gasket for £20ish).

However, I want to keep 1 car in working order at any 1 time and the next event is approx 21 Jan 12 so we agreed that we will leave the engine intact for the mo (so that this car will definitely be ready for mid Jan) and concentrate on finishing the fuel pump issue (get it replaced under warranty and fabricate an alu cover for the spare wheel well where the pump's located). When one of the other car's is ready, we can then look at taking the Maestro off the road for long enough to do an engine rebuild.

Had a chat with Nick Stafford (ex Austin Rover mechanic) and his advice is as follows:


Consider getting an MSA Technical Officer (the highest level within the MSA) at £36 for a visit (a scrutineer may only charge for mileage but the TO's advice will be definitive) to inspect the car for compliance with modern scrutineering regs, and confirm it complies in writing.

It will take 1 hr to take the head off

You could then tip the head on its side and pour some brake cleaner down the ports and see if any leak.

Getting the engine out of a Maestro is quite hard work (harder than a Sierra or Capri because it's transvers and it is hampered by the suspension) -would take a mechanic at least 4 hours.

Crank grind and shells £80-90
Pistons £100
Crosshatch and Hone £30-35
New piston rings £45/set (might not need rings)
Head gasket and seals £18
Timing chain £18
Tensioner £8-12
Guides won't need replacing unless they're broken (unlikely)

Likely to be about £200-250 to rebuild it.

The VW gearbox is a nightmare to get in/out while the engine is in situ, so if the engine is out then it's worth sending the box away to be rebuilt (probably £160?) out at the same time.

The car's historic value will be halved if it has a non-original engine in it. Nick would be willing to take back the Maestro engine that's out of the car at Rockingham (possibly by getting it sent up on a pallet, or even by putting it in the Escort when he collects it)

[John C]

has anyone got any ideas why there would be a 2nd white car? I can only think that either:
a) one was a spare car held in reserve
b) it was repainted to another colour for the race e.g. John Watson is seen racing a black car on the video

The Autosport magazine (10 Nov '83) article on the race states:
"Sullivan was the first to return with oil spraying all over the engine but there was a spare car and he continued."

Therefore, my 2nd white car was probably Sullivan's original car which he then swapped for the silver car that appears on the TV footage, and the only white car remaining in the race was Tony Pond's (seen on the video).

[John C]

The Rally Sprint cars have black roll cages with a diagonal brace as detailed here on 23rd October 2011, 14:28:
Austin Rover "Rally Sprint" Rally Drivers v Grand Prix Drivers.
http://www.maestro.org.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=11941

My 3 cars have the black roll cages but no diagonal brace on the rollcage's rear sector, and my cages appear to extend much further rearwards. They reach down to the rear arches and are visible by looking through the glass quarter panels, whereas the Rally Sprint cages are visible by looking through the rear door windows.

I have 1 theory as to why this might have come to pass. The roll cage fitted for the race might have been either a 'half-cage' or 'modular', and this was subsequently replaced with a more comprehensive cage when the cars were rebuilt for rallyschool use (e.g. bucket seats & hyd handbrake fitted, interior removed, repainted etc.).

The other thing I noticed is that photos of the Rally Sprint Maestros show that both front and rear doors had no rubbing strips on them (black plastic). My Maestros have no rubbing strips on the front doors (where they displayed a 'door number' when in MITHRIL RACING livery). This may be because either:
a) The cars were restored to road spec after the race (several had substantial panel damage)
b) The doors were replaced during the cars' time at MITHRIL (due to rust or damage). As detailed elsewhere in this thread, we know that several doors were definitely replaced with those from a later model of car.

If either of the white cars have evidence of a replacement front passenger door then this would indicate that it was Tony Ponds (his door was heavily damaged during the race). Equally, if the silver Maestro has evidence of a repaired front end then this would indicate that it was Stig Blomqvists' car.

[E_T_V]

C477 ADU isn;t the right registration number. Arum white was discontinued by then and also so was the R series engine.

[John C]

I found a VIN plate on the car (which has no reg plates) and it states:


03111T
*SAXXCTWY7AM116704*
PAINT: NMF TRIM: LCH

NMF is "Arum White 1982-1985 BLVC 449 "

Here's what "Arum White" looks like:
http://www.motorbase.com/profiles/pi...litre%20R&pp=6

http://www.theminiforum.co.uk/forums...howtopic=46823

There's also some info on the different types of white on here:
http://www.maestro.org.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=9424


1 window has this Reg etched into it: C477 ADU
The other windows appear to have no reg numbers etched in.

I put this Reg number into the DVLA site and it came up with the following gen:

Vehicle enquiry
The enquiry is complete.The vehicle details for C477 ADU are:
Date of Liability 01 04 1994
Date of First Registration 01 06 1986
Year of Manufacture 1986
Cylinder Capacity (cc) 1598cc
CO2 Emissions Not Available
Fuel Type PETROL
Export Marker N
Vehicle Status Unlicensed
Vehicle Colour SILVER
Vehicle Type Approval Not Available
This vehicle can be licensed at a DVLA Local Office without the V5C Registration Certificate

I believe, therefore, that the door is form a different car as the above info says AUSTIN not MG, the year is 3 years later than the car was built (if the info linking it to the '83 Austin Rover Rally Sprint is correct), and the colour is silver (not white as the rest of the car is).

Therefore, it appears that this car was probably the MG Maestro that Metro 6R4 Group B legend Tony Pond raced in the '83 AR Rally Sprint. However, there 2 of my 3 Maestros appear to be white underneath (and this is confirmed by their VIN plate), with the 3rd being silver. There were numerous silver Maestros in the Sprint race, but only one white car (driven by Pond), so has anyone got any ideas why there would be a 2nd white car? I can only think that either:
a) one was a spare car held in reserve
b) it was repainted to another colour for the race e.g. John Watson is seen racing a black car on the video

http://www.maestro.org.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=15915

[John C]

I've also mail ordered a 400ml can of Ametech RESTORE to Class Racing, CEME:
http://www.enginerestore.co.uk/press-releases-13-w.asp

as suggested on this thread:
http://www.maestro.org.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=16006

It's worth a try and I will report back in due course with any long term improvements in compression etc.

[John C]

I bought the Oil Flush because it recently had the oil changed but it looked black/dirty again almost straight away (and the old oil had been in there for years and looked like tar when it came out, apparently).

Graham advises that there is a smell of petrol in the oil when the rocker cover is removed, so it appears that there may be some bore-washing going on and/or worn bores allowing mixture to get into the oil.

I went to see the car last thurs night and the Class Racing guys got it fired up shortly before. Graham warned me that it runs rough. It didn't sound too bad to (as a non-mechanic), but the Class Racing guys' skilled rebuild of the carbs (inc new jets) was obvious as soon as I drove off in it. Before it had no power below about 3000-4000rpm and then it took off like a scalded cat above this rpm. Now it pulls cleanly and hard when you floor it from any speed -much more tractable. I only tested it in the car park so could not get more than 40mph approx in 2nd gear, but I was impressed by what I did see.

When I came smartly off the gas at high revs the car pulled strongly to the left under engine braking -what could be causing this, do you think?

Unfortunately the new Facet fuel pump was leaking despite Chris tightening up the unions again -it might even be coming out of the main body of the pump. Hopefully removing and refitting it will show if it was a problem with the unions, or if it is indeed the pump body at fault. It was brand new from ebay so it will have to be returned. I sourced another one from ebay at v short notice and got it mailed out Special Delivery, but then the rally sprint event we were aiming for a couple of days later got cancelled due to the field being water-logged again.

The Class Racing guys have also made a very nice, professional looking job of fitting mud flaps at the rear, and generally the car is coming together nicely.

The rear spoiler (black rubber) needs to be re-affixed on the bottom left hand side.
I also need to clarify if the Compression Test was done with the throttle held wide open and a recently charged battery.

There are no events for this car now until approx 21 Jan 12, so there's over 2 months of 'off-season' to work through some of the above jobs in slow time.