Ledbury Maestro Queries

[Guest]

I've done it again!! I have on wedensday, bought a new car, following the write off of H902......

On my last trip to Ledbury, to pick up some van shocks and springs, I saw unexpectedly that they had a trade in Y reg Maestro. £1500 they were asking, and it was/is immaculate, with one lady owner and 30k on the clock (converted from kms that is). So, a hasty decsion following my recent spate of bad luck with the LX and I bought it for £1400 cash with a new lock set thrown in.

Its been really quite good, runs fine, and is still taking some getting used to as its newness hasn't worn off, and nothing rattles or creaks or feels worn!!

I have today been fitting a new instrument pack, with rev counter from a Montego into it, thus keeping the style of the MK3 dash, and giving me an odometer in miles rather than Kilometers. Today was also my first real up close inspection and "rip to bits" session.

I assumed, that having a mk3 dash, a mk3 wiring harness and fusebox would be expected. No such luck, the chance to plug one of my many lights on warning buzzers failed!

In some respects I have become a bit hacked off with it, there is nothing conventional in the wiring that I can see, and wondered if anyone could help with some of these problems.

Why is there no dip/dim relay? Its most odd, sidelights really are sidelights, no dipped dipped beam when the ignition is on.

The handbrake light does not work, this is really bugging me now. I assumed a blown bulb, and thought I would sort it out when I changed the instument pack, but I can't get the dam thing to work, and neither the Maestro or Montego wiring diagrams make any sense with what I have got in the car.

I "should" have a slate/black wire, from the handbrake switch, to the instrument pack. When the handbrake is on, the swith makes an earth, and puts the light on.

The switch on the handbrake works, the wire is there, and has been traced to the back of the glovebox where it then disapears into the main loom. At the instrument pack multiplugs, there is no grey/slate wire. Does anyone know where this wire goes, or what may be a cause of my lack of light?

Does it interact with the brake pad wear wiring, and the brake fluid switch wiring?

To me the loom looks like a mix match of Maestro and Montego looms, made to fit.

Rear o/s door.

The handle wouldn't work, it was not doing anything, and didnt feel connected. Silly me here, decided in a car park that the childlock must be at fault, and inadvertently put it on, then realising that the door now can't be opened from the inside or outside.

Anyone know any tips/tricks to get the door open, or how to remove the door card with the door closed?

I think thats all for the moment, its just so annying buggering that door up, and not having a light on on the dash when you put the handbrake on!!

Many thanks, Rich

[D87SMW]

Ledbury

Congrats on the new car.

Can we see any pix of it? What colour/reg is it? I'm intruiged.

With regard to the door handle... the door card should be removable with the door closed, surely? Unscrew the screws in the handle and pull away the card from the door etc...

BTW, if you get frustrated with it and wanna sell, gimme a shout. :laugh:

[Austin-Rover]

Nice one Rich. Just give yourself some time to get used to the intricacies and oddities of a Ledbury Maestro, its really very good motoring.

Afraid I can’t much help you with the handbrake warning light, except Ledders has always had one, even on his original Speedo pack (Kms). I like you have put Mk3 style instruments with a rev counter in since then and it still works fine.

Like Steve says you should get the door card off with a bit of fiddling about. It sounds like the metal rod has fallen out of the handle mechanism. Very inconvenient. My car used to do this every time I shut the driver’s door.

[E_T_V]

Why is there no dip/dim relay? Its most odd, sidelights really are sidelights, no dipped dipped beam when the ignition is on.

Dim/Dip is a peculiar thing to the UK. As they were never desined for the UK they don't have one. Also many many cars now don't have it as it seems to have been abandoned for UK cars.

The handbrake light does not work

Does it interact with the brake pad wear wiring, and the brake fluid switch wiring?

To me the loom looks like a mix match of Maestro and Montego looms, made to fit.

My handbrake light has also packed up. I think it is almost certainly the switch or a break in the wire from the switch to the instument pack as it runs under the carpets. Are you certain the switch is working?

Congrats on the new car anyway. Lets hope you have many years of happy motoring in him/her

[Beaker]

Any pictures yet?

[e692wtt]

Firstly, congrats on your purchase!

I have today been fitting a new instrument pack, with rev counter from a Montego into it, thus keeping the style of the MK3 dash, and giving me an odometer in miles rather than Kilometers. Today was also my first real up close inspection and "rip to bits" session.

I assumed, that having a mk3 dash, a mk3 wiring harness and fusebox would be expected. No such luck, the chance to plug one of my many lights on warning buzzers failed!

In some respects I have become a bit hacked off with it, there is nothing conventional in the wiring that I can see, and wondered if anyone could help with some of these problems.

I may be wrong, but I think no Maestro ever had the Montego Mk II Fusebox – the Mk II Maestros are the same as the MK I Montego, electrically.

So it’s all dead conventional Maestro Mk II/Montego MK I wiring, dead easy. Personally, I find the Wiring Diagrams for the Mk II Montego a lot harder to use then those for the Mk I but the wiring itself seems to be the same.

Why is there no dip/dim relay? Its most odd, sidelights really are sidelights, no dipped dipped beam when the ignition is on.

‘Dim-dip’ wasn’t a result of a European Directive, just something the UK Government of the time instituted as a road safety idea, and ‘Dim-dip’ wasn’t actually road legal. It was soon phased out, but personally I think it was a damn good idea!

The handbrake light does not work, this is really bugging me now. I assumed a blown bulb, and thought I would sort it out when I changed the instument pack, but I can't get the dam thing to work, and neither the Maestro or Montego wiring diagrams make any sense with what I have got in the car.

I "should" have a slate/black wire, from the handbrake switch, to the instrument pack. When the handbrake is on, the swith makes an earth, and puts the light on.

The switch on the handbrake works, the wire is there, and has been traced to the back of the glovebox where it then disapears into the main loom. At the instrument pack multiplugs, there is no grey/slate wire. Does anyone know where this wire goes, or what may be a cause of my lack of light?

Does it interact with the brake pad wear wiring, and the brake fluid switch wiring?

At the back of the Instrument Pack, the left hand 3 wires on the right hand connector (the 3 wires at the other end to the ‘cutout’ on the connector that attaches to the contacts on the top nearer the speedo ) are the wires that provide for the ‘brake warning light’ to come on to inform the driver that either the handbrake is on, the front brakes require attention or the brake fluid is low. On the Ledbury (and Apple 2000, I think) Maestros, this one bulb covers all 3 circuits (like on Mk II Montegos) by dint of the Printed Circuit bringing all 3 circuits together. There should be 3 separate wires from the connector here – from an early Maestro Haynes Manual, they are - black/yellow tracer (to one of the o/s/f brake pads), black/white tracer (to the brake fluid switch) and slate/black tracer (handbrake switch) but I don't know in which order. However - I have a feeling that the Ledbury Maestros don't have the Brake Pad Wear function fitted, so reference to the black/yellow tracer wire may be inaccurate... The colours may be different but the scheme is the same, and we fitted some Montego SLX Instruments to a Ledbury Maestro with no problems in this regard. You can check the wire colour for the handbrake switch anyway, and find the same colour wire at the Instrument Pack connector as above.

Anyway, let's get this handbrake warning light working...

Firstly, bridge the 2 wires on the brake fluid switch with the Ignition ‘on’ and see if the ‘brake warning light’ lights up. If so then the bulb and that circuit is ok. If not...

Take the Instrument pack out and change the bulb for one that you know works. If still no joy then check for continuity between the end of the black/white tracer wire in the connector (as above – one of the three wires) and the black/white tracer wire where it connects to the brake fluid lever switch.

Then check for continuity between the end of the slate/black tracer wire in the connector (as above – one of the three wires) and the slate/black tracer wire where it connects to the handbrake switch.

Get back to us with the results of these tests.

To me the loom looks like a mix match of Maestro and Montego looms, made to fit.

I know exactly what you mean. But it’s just the same as what you are used to, I think you’ll find.


And it’s dead easy wiring in the Lights On Buzzer, I wrote an article in Monstro about it some time ago after doing the job on my (Mk I) Monty. Shout if you want to know how to do it.


Did you get the rev counter working? I can let you know how to do that too, it took one new wire on the Ledbury Maestro I performed this on - just like on my Monty...

[Andy]

What a find to stumble on lol. How many ledburys were built because ther isent realy many in the club. Nice to see a nother one, you had chance to take any pics yet?

[Austin-Rover]

What a find to stumble on lol. How many ledburys were built because ther isent realy many in the club. Nice to see a nother one, you had chance to take any pics yet?

621 Cars & Vans assembled in Ledbury. (R - 51 Reg). Quite a few out there, but as you say, it would seem very few known within the club.

Also unknown quantities of 'Apple 2000' Maestro's sold around N Reg? Is anyone actually sure of the origins of Apple Maestro's?

[Guest]

Thanks all for the replys.

I have taken a few pics, but can't resize them at the mo as I dont have the software installed. Will try and sort that out tomorrow.

Thanks for your advice Rich (E692 WTT), after reading that, somthing clicked, so in the dark I go out, and discover, low and behold the brake pad wear sensor unplugged. Plug it back in, handbrake light on!! Take the handbrake off, light still on.............. Drive about, light flickering constantly Assume pads worn? Check that out, no, there fine. Check brake fluid level, again, fine.

So, in the dark with a torch I have made a start at checking out the wiring, and I believe there is an earth on the cable between the speedo and the brake fluid level switch, but in the dark, with a loom full of extra soldered joints, and a mix match of colours on cables its a bit hard to say for sure.

What pi me off about this the most is that Ledbury MUST have known there was a fault, and rather than fixing it, just unplugged it, letting me assume a duff bulb. Its not the only problem I had with them when buying it from them either. If they were closer to me, I would take it back tomorrow and get them to mend it!!

Instead though, I will have a better investigation tomorrow, and can't really complain with the fact that its still so new!!

Rich

[D87SMW]

Handbrake Light

Thanks all for the replys.

I have taken a few pics, but can't resize them at the mo as I dont have the software installed. Will try and sort that out tomorrow.

Thanks for your advice Rich (E692 WTT), after reading that, somthing clicked, so in the dark I go out, and discover, low and behold the brake pad wear sensor unplugged. Plug it back in, handbrake light on!! Take the handbrake off, light still on.............. Drive about, light flickering constantly Assume pads worn? Check that out, no, there fine. Check brake fluid level, again, fine.

So, in the dark with a torch I have made a start at checking out the wiring, and I believe there is an earth on the cable between the speedo and the brake fluid level switch, but in the dark, with a loom full of extra soldered joints, and a mix match of colours on cables its a bit hard to say for sure.

What pi me off about this the most is that Ledbury MUST have known there was a fault, and rather than fixing it, just unplugged it, letting me assume a duff bulb. Its not the only problem I had with them when buying it from them either. If they were closer to me, I would take it back tomorrow and get them to mend it!!
Rich

My Ledbury Maestro had a similar problem. The light stayed on with the handbrake released. What solved the problem was ensuring that the lever was fully down, i.e. keep button in and put it all the way down. Just letting go as you drop the lever didn't drop it low enough to put out the light.

It may be the lever switch/sensor at fault...

PS: Images eagerly awaited.

[E_T_V]

That is the problem with my camper van, if the handbrake isn't pushed to the floor the lith doesn't go off. Even then if you hit and big bumps it pops back on again. I think a little "readjustment" is required*

*using a bloomin big hammer

[e692wtt]

Hi Rich,

I'm glad my jottings got you thinking... some useful info in your reply.

I would say, as Steve said above, that the brake fluid level switch is faulty. I think it will be contaminated with brake fluid (after it has been left upside down at some point in its life - the one on my Monty did this, and the one off my scrap Mini fitted and worked perfectly). Try replacing it with the one off the Maestro that has recently been written off. Hopefully that would sort it. I wouldn't expect the wiring to be a problem, to be honest.

And if the brake warning light doesn't work with the handbrake itself then check for continuity between the slate/black tracer wire at the Instrument Connector and the same cable at the handbrake switch. Hopefully there is continuity here, if not then put a 'fly lead' in (cutting the slate/black tracer wire at both ends and putting the 'fly lead' across the two cut ends to create a continuous circuit). You've said that the Handbrake Switch works ok, so I don't think that's a problem.

Also if there is continuity on the slate/black tracer wire, check for continuity between the earth wire from the handbrake switch and the car body itself... might need to add a new earth here too, but this would be easy to fit.


Re the handbrake light flickering and the handbrake needing to be pushed right down - my dad's 1985 MG Metro had this very fault. But... like the Mk II Maestros and Mk I Montegos, this car had the 3 'brake warning lights' (handbrake, pad wear and brake fluid) that Ledbury Maestros don't, so it was easy to see which circuit was playing up.


I reckon it's the brake fluid switch is faulty, and the handbrake switch needs adjusting or rewiring, but, again, let us know how it goes.

Hope this helps.

[Guest]

At last, I seem to have found a fix, and the problem.

I took the handbrake to bits again, and double checked the switch operation, which was fine. I then worked my way through the wiring with the testers and drew up a circuit diagram as I went.

I then tried changing the switch on the brake fluid master cylinder for a spare new item from Ledbury, that took half an hour to find in the loft full of parts. I thought I had fixed it, until I put my foot on the brake, and it came back on again .

So, I did another test, which was useful as I had 2 other Maestros to do comparisons on. The brake pad wiring at the plug on the pad, has no contact with earth. But on the Ledbury the wires were earthed, despite there being big thick pads still on there. It looks like one of them has got trapped in the caliper or somthing like that. So I put my new van pad on (just plugged in and hanging there) and the problem went!

So, I cursed that I needed to buy a new set of pads to get the light working. Then I thought about it, and came to the conclusion that I have never worn a set of pads down far enough to make the light come on. So, I cut the plug of, joined the wires together, and hey presto all seems well now!!

Thank you everyone for your help and advice, this has been such a headache, mainly as rather than 3 easy circuits, on this later model, its all one compex circuit!!

Lets see if this pic attaches!!

Rich

[e692wtt]

Ah, nice one - glad you got it sorted. Car looks good too.

It's a funny one about the pad wear system, because Rich Gelder said to me that his Ledbury doesn't have the wires on the car to attach to the wires from the brake pad - I assumed yours would be the same. I'll have to nvestigate Rich Gelder's car when I next see it! :laugh:

I think it's a bit nasty swapping from 3 seperate lights to just one to cover any brake faults - definitely a backward step. But I would say that the car itself is wired the same.

Good to hear it all now works as intended though.

[Maria]

Woohoo!! Shiiiiiiny!!