Re: Forum to become members only.

[Russ]

As I've said on a members only thread, why not have relevant advertising on here I'm on plenty of other forums that have non intrusive advertising on ,which also can be useful to users

[H48HPE]

Hi Dan,

its genuinely about getting more members in - we want the money so we can do more things. ideally this website needs a real rethink - its rubbish! we cant operate a decent club shop or spares off it.... we don't want another amateur job we want one that'll be the best about.

Tanya wants to put a stand on at next years NEC that will blow everyone else out of the water - but thats going to cost.

theres loads of other stuff too

We need people to join the club to do all this - at the end of the day that's what's going to save these cars, if they have a strong following.


personally I wont rest until MG Mal is a signed up member - but what will it take

[E_T_V]

Ok some very quick stats to help show how flawed the argument for closing the forum to non member is:

Of the top 100 contributors (i.e. the top 100 posters to this forum of all time)

21% are "Members"
62% are Not members
17% have a custom user title so I cannot tell for sure but lets assume they are members for the sake of this analysis.

So the content of this forum is made from roughly 60% non members and 40% members

Of the members in that list top 100 contributors, nearly 20% of your most active members have already said that they are unhappy with the decision to make the forum members-only in this thread and I'm betting most are unaware of the decision yet too.

If you think this decision is in the best interests of the club or the enthusiast community your reasoning is fundamentally flawed.

I could do some more in-depth statistical analysis but that'd take me a while!

[Russ]

I hear what you say Andy, but at the end of the day we have maestros and montegos not exactly top of everyone's fantasy garage list no matter how much we may love them and with all due respect I fail to see what a massive stand at the NEC will do for the club except massage the ego's of the few who are lucky enough to exhibit.
A push on membership and interest should have been about 10 years ago when there were far more saveable cars around. Unless the club opens a Chinese branch I would have thought membership must be just about at peak
Russ

[H48HPE]

Ok some very quick stats to help show how flawed the argument for closing the forum to non member is:

Of the top 100 contributors (i.e. the top 100 posters to this forum of all time)

21% are "Members"
62% are Not members
17% have a custom user title so I cannot tell for sure but lets assume they are members for the sake of this analysis.

So the content of this forum is made from roughly 60% non members and 40% members

Of the members in that list top 100 contributors, nearly 20% of your most active members have already said that they are unhappy with the decision to make the forum members-only in this thread and I'm betting most are unaware of the decision yet too.

If you think this decision is in the best interests of the club or the enthusiast community your reasoning is fundamentally flawed.

I could do some more in-depth statistical analysis but that'd take me a while!

some interesting facts there....

but lets have some ideas now for how I can go back to the committee and say we need to do 'x', 'y' & 'z' to get our membership numbers up so we can scrap this idea once and for all....

we're blanning to attend 4 times the number of events next year... but what else will help

we've got suggestions for advertising

would members back a membership increase in the new year to say £22.00 up from £18.00 - or would that put people off.

What we need now is positive suggestions for change.

Andy

[E_T_V]

There is a difference between a forum and a club and what is planned for this club IMO

Who knows what is planned for this club? The members certainly didn't in this case!

Agreed about not all of them in my list being clubs but there are plenty of proper clubs that operate free forums too. 200.org.uk does for example.

mg-rover.org is run as a business
rovertech is run as a technical resource mostly with charges made for selling stuff as a business user.
200.org.uk is run as a club similar to this one but on a smaller scale (its only been around a few years), and its web hosting cost is outweighed by the advertising revenue and membership subs.

[E_T_V]

Hi Dan,

its genuinely about getting more members in - we want the money so we can do more things. ideally this website needs a real rethink - its rubbish! we cant operate a decent club shop or spares off it.... we don't want another amateur job we want one that'll be the best about.

Tanya wants to put a stand on at next years NEC that will blow everyone else out of the water - but thats going to cost.

theres loads of other stuff too

We need people to join the club to do all this - at the end of the day that's what's going to save these cars, if they have a strong following.


personally I wont rest until MG Mal is a signed up member - but what will it take

If you want to get more members in, you have to offer them something. Making the wealth of community and advice invisible to them is not the way to do things.

From an outsider coming into the world of thinking about owning a car. What would you prefer, access to a bustling community of advice, help and general banter, so you can see what you are getting involved in or a blank wall that says pay me money and we'll let you in to see all the fun? That is going to be a big barrier to most people. (And I'm not talking about the cost, its a mental barrier paying for something you have no idea what the quality is)

On a personal note I don't care that Tanya wants to put on a club stand at the NEC to shame all others. Indeed that makes me rather concerned as I know what is involved in it all. This club was supposed to be run for its members benefit, not for someone who wants to show-boat at one particular event. How many of our members even attend the NEC?

Don't get me wrong there is nothing wrong with putting on a good show and generating positive publicity for the club and the marque, and great progress has been made in these areas of late, but it must be tempered by the need to do what is best for the members as well as the club/marque itself.

[H48HPE]

I hear what you say Andy, but at the end of the day we have maestros and montegos not exactly top of everyone's fantasy garage list no matter how much we may love them and with all due respect I fail to see what a massive stand at the NEC will do for the club except massage the ego's of the few who are lucky enough to exhibit.
A push on membership and interest should have been about 10 years ago when there were far more saveable cars around. Unless the club opens a Chinese branch I would have thought membership must be just about at peak
Russ

Valid points Russ,

there's certainly some big egos on that stand - just look at Jeff! I think the NEC stand is a good way of showing the classic car community that we are more than a load of old duffers driving stuff round that should have been scrapped years ago. we need to get the press pushing our cars, get this outdated 'clarkson' image of our cars banished for good - thats why we want the stand to 'stand out'

Note to committee - we need to target China! - why not - if they want to send money to us we'll take it off em.

And I do agree - that we missed the boat somewhat, but we want to try and push for what we can, its only now that opinions on these crs are changing, I now get people wanting to talk about my cars rather than laugh at them

[Guest]

Hi Dan,

its genuinely about getting more members in - we want the money so we can do more things. ideally this website needs a real rethink - its rubbish! we cant operate a decent club shop or spares off it.... we don't want another amateur job we want one that'll be the best about.

Tanya wants to put a stand on at next years NEC that will blow everyone else out of the water - but thats going to cost.

theres loads of other stuff too

We need people to join the club to do all this - at the end of the day that's what's going to save these cars, if they have a strong following.


personally I wont rest until MG Mal is a signed up member - but what will it take

Ok, you got me to comment again!


Sorry, the answer is no.

Although not one to hold grudge's, I have been defamed too many times by members and "persons of authority" on this forum over the last 10+ years to ever consider paid membership.

I have also been slammed down and had "truth's denied" on open forum too many times too.

But this is not about one person, this is about a decision taken without consultation of a clubs membership, nor it's forum membership.

It happens to be a subject that, in the past has had "open debate" and the general concensus of both Paid Members and forum users was a definnative NO!.

As it has been knocked back on a number of occasions, it makes one wonder why it was then discussed, pushed through to a vote and passed by those who represent you the members, even though at least some of those who voted where aware it had been quashed many times before on open forum?

It seems to me that, Tanya is becoming the "clean sweep" the club needs. Her enthusiasm and drive will aid this club in becoming bigger and better "over time".

The issue as stated is not cost of running the forum "for all" but, (by all accounts) a lack in increased membership revenues that the club will need to see it's way ahead in the future.
Forcing those who contribute in knowledge but not in cash, to chose the "pay up or go" option is not what a club should do (personal opinion), they will just take their knowledge. spares and money elsewhere.

I still maintain that essentially "banning" access to the forum for non members is a mistake, as it will be telling those people that, they are not entitled to use information that they themselves have helped collate over the years.
(and there are some serious Techno Masters on here that will be affected)

Having sat on the side and read the reply's that have been posted by those for and against the decision, the "options" being suggested such as "A chit chat room, but the technical archive will still be members only" would likely still have the same effect as a complete members only forum.

Unfortunately for this forum, it has been set up in a way that allows those who gave freely of their advice, technical, and purchasing know-how, have the ability (and the right) to request it's removal should they no longer wish to share it.

It has already been requested that this removal be given attention by one or two people already.

This would be as great a loss to the "Club" as the loss a "locked" forum would cause, maybe even more so, as those that remained, would have huge chunks of this excellent repository missing.

Would it still be a valuable asset then?

My position stands in regards to any form of lock out from the archives that, hundreds of former and current "non members" have contributed to.

I hope the club comes out of this better than ever, and that the forum remains a guide to those looking to see if a Maestro or Montego is the car for them.

But without free access, I can't see many coming this way.(but plenty turning away)

Mal.

[Tanya]

I hear what you say Andy, but at the end of the day we have maestros and montegos not exactly top of everyone's fantasy garage list no matter how much we may love them and with all due respect I fail to see what a massive stand at the NEC will do for the club except massage the ego's of the few who are lucky enough to exhibit.
A push on membership and interest should have been about 10 years ago when there were far more saveable cars around. Unless the club opens a Chinese branch I would have thought membership must be just about at peak
Russ

The NEC is about publicity and raising both the club and cars profile, which we did quite well this year. Publicity is important for attracting new people/returners to buy Maestros & Montegos. However, I do plan to do next year's NEC as cheaply as possible, as I'll have much more time to plan, and involve members who want to help and I'm hoping that I can beg, borrow and steal, well maybe not the steal bit! This year we did manage to get free carpet (hope to do that next year too), so just had to spend £20 on NEC Approved tape - yes, you do have to use branded NEC Approved tape!

I also want to see different cars on the stand as more of the membership should be involved in all aspects of the NEC. Members should have the opportunity to come for a day and be on the stand, and traditionally, this has not happened. We get an allocation of tickets, and these need to be better used and distributed.

I'm not disagreeing that a push on membership before now would have been good, but we are where we are. There are still salvageable Maestros and Montegos out there, we just need to make sure that folk are interested enough in the cars to want to save them. That's part of our job as an owners club.

I'm all in favour of involving the membership in many more areas of the club, this has to be the way forward. We have a membership no doubt full of different skills that could help the club, and it would be great to get this happening.

[Russ]

The club should be pushing for the restoration of as many cars a possible, if for example someone stumbles across a salvageable MM but doesn't know a lot about them he or she is not going to stump up the membership fee to have a look on what will be quite an empty forum to see what help they can get and what parts are available.
And let's not forget without people like Mal having the foresight years ago to horde parts for our cars there would be far less on the roads today

[The Express Valeter]

There is a difference between a forum and a club and what is planned for this club IMO

Just make it a Club,,,,,,,,with a forum. Even the MGOC does that!

[Tanya]

Forum closure to non members on 1st January suspended!

Thank you to all of you for their feedback today, and it's great to see how many people are passionate about the forum. We will be taking all your feedback on board.

A small number on the committee have taken the decision to suspend the decision to close the forum to non members on 1st January, to allow the full committee to reconsider its position. Please give us a few days to discuss this and then we'll get back to you.

[Chris Y]

I am however happy enough to join up with one issue - Why does the club on this topic have to be the same as all these bloody annoying companies who send out forms via email then expect you to PRINT IT OFF & POST? I do NOT have a printer so on this basis I can't join!!

We have an online signup form and have done for years. The system accepts Paypal and other credit cards: http://maestro.org.uk/join_us.htm

[E_T_V]

some interesting facts there....

but lets have some ideas now for how I can go back to the committee and say we need to do 'x', 'y' & 'z' to get our membership numbers up so we can scrap this idea once and for all....

we're blanning to attend 4 times the number of events next year... but what else will help

we've got suggestions for advertising

would members back a membership increase in the new year to say £22.00 up from £18.00 - or would that put people off.

What we need now is positive suggestions for change.

Andy

Agreed. To keep things hopefully easier to read I've started a suggestions thread here
http://www.maestro.org.uk/forums/sho...d.php?p=179850