forum

[Hobby]

I can't believe its still going on. Give it a rest ffs.

We will have an AGM next year so you can year ask them then, all you have to do is put a motion forwards.

If you don't want to wait then call an EGM, you've already been told how.



Either put up or shut up.



Please...


(BTW it seems to have speeded up!)

[Russ]

I can't believe that a club official is talking down to an ' ORDINARY' member telling them they have no rights to know how OUR membership subscription is being spent!
If I didn't live in the wilds of East Anglia I would call for an EGM!

[Beaker]

Beaker,I don't know why you feel that you can make a judgement regarding the potential cost for this work, because you have no knowledge of what the committee were asking to be carried out. In that respect your 3 emboldened questions at the beginning of your most recent post are not relevant to the operation of this forum and therefore does not need to be in the public domain.

I can't make a judgement as no-one will answer the simple technical questions hence I don't have the knowledge on what was carried out that is not visible. The questions should not be a difficult ask. It is significant amount of membership money and their is no need to be "cloak and dagger" about it.

I can only assume you don't know the answers to them either.

With two committee members not being able to answer the questions it can only lead me to conclude that some of the committee does not entirely understand the work that has been carried out.

[Sussex Pete]

Beaker, I have to say that I am finding the tone of your posts in this thread increasingly aggresive and verging on an affront to the integrity of the committee. For your information, prior to retiring, I spent 30 years working in a number of senior IT roles and have engaged contractors to carry out work such as this on a number of occasions. I also undertook the discussion with one of the companies contacted for this project as part of our due diligence, with the quotes provided by them all being of a very similar nature and amount.

I don't know why you feel that you can make a judgement regarding the potential cost for this work, because you have no knowledge of what the committee were asking to be carried out. In that respect your 3 emboldened questions at the beginning of your most recent post are not relevant to the operation of this forum and therefore does not need to be in the public domain. Indeed, it is my view that, as an ordinary member and no matter what roles you undertook previously with this club, you have no right to be made aware of that information, as long as the result provided does not reduce the facilities you had access to previously.

[Beaker]

I disagree with your pricing and in my opinion you are very significantly out. This, coupled with your apparent lack of knowledge around security leads me to question your depth knowledge around websites, forums etc.Whilst my knowledge on how websites, forums etc work is poor, I have had to procure one for my business and also a charity which I chair. I know the needs of my business and likewise for the charity so the quotations are built on that.

Are you able to explain these points or not?

• Can you please explain what has been done to the backend?
• What was significant?
• Why was a server move yet again required?

What has caused you to perceive I have an apparent lack of knowledge about security? Is it because you are unable to answer the questions above so feel the need to attack me in an unsubstantiated claim?

The M&MOC's committee recieved three quotes and spoke to each company in detail. We had specific requirements which the committee had agreed. You were not part of the committee meetings or the tendering process so will not be privy to the details which are important when tendering.

So you are unable to be transparent when being questioned about a substantial amount of members money. You were not asked to detail pricing structure, what T&C's were in place. You were asked the three technical questions above yet seem unable to answer them.

The committee is accountable to its members which is the basis on which we work. However, we are elected by the members to do the job and it is unreasonable and unworkable to have each and every decision and part of the decisions questioned at each point. The AGM is an opportunity for the members to review the committee and its decisions and elect a different committee should they see fit to.

Yes they are accountable but from your above comment you are not willing to be accountable/transparent. I agree it is unreasonable to have every decision questioned, but we are not talking £30 odd quid for stationary we are talking about a significant proportion of membership money.

I will not be answering any further questions around the website's procurement or any other decision to do with the website. In my opinion I have given more than adequate responses. However, any member unhappy about this decision or any other the committee makes has the right to call an EGM and the details about how to do this can be found in the constitution - http://maestro.org.uk/about-us/constitution/

I read this as you are unable to answer the simple technical questions I asked above so wheel out the constitution as a defence mechanism.

I am committed to listening to the quiet majority not just the vocal minority. As I have commented before it is natural to mainly hear from those who are unhappy; those who are happy with the club and website etc are just getting on with it. That said, I am frequently thanked by members for the effort and way the committee run the club and often complimented by those working in the classic car world who can appreciate the vision the committee has for the club.

Of course we want to continue to hear about glitches with the website and we work through teething difficulties so specific problems accompanied by details are welcome and needed. For example 'too much white space' wouldn't be one, but 'I can't upload photos to x thread' would be. I will start a new thread just for this being clear that the purpose of the thread is for reporting on glitches.

So you are committed to listen in the first paragraph but in the second paragraph only want to receive feedback that you are happy to hear.

[Tanya]

Forum is much quicker and seems to be working ok for me now. Hopefully the teething troubles are reducing

Pleased to hear it Jeff. Thank you for regularly letting me know of the glitches as and when you come across them. While we want to resolve your individual issues in doing so we improve the forum for everyone. Please keep reporting them by either let me know personally or via the new thread which I'm about to create. Thank you

Edit - here it is http://maestro.org.uk/forums/forum/m...-use-the-forum

[Tanya]

How many companies quoted? It seems an awful lot of money (and I am speaking from experience as I have just been involved in a tender for a new corporate website) for a service that has not been entirely delivered correctly. Can you please explain what has been done to the backend? What was significant? Why was a server move yet again required?

My quick sums come to around £700 (see below) excluding any backend work of which I don't know what it is.

New CMS/Template - £0 - £40 depending on if you decide to purchase a more professional one.
Time to install/move content 1-2 days Est £2-300
VB5 license - £160 - There are cheaper/better/alternatives
Forum upgrade 1/2 day, 1/2 day testing/seamless integration with CMS template. Est £100-£200

I disagree with your pricing and in my opinion you are very significantly out. This, coupled with your apparent lack of knowledge around security leads me to question your depth knowledge around websites, forums etc.

Whilst my knowledge on how websites, forums etc work is poor, I have had to procure one for my business and also a charity which I chair. I know the needs of my business and likewise for the charity so the quotations are built on that.

The M&MOC's committee recieved three quotes and spoke to each company in detail. We had specific requirements which the committee had agreed. You were not part of the committee meetings or the tendering process so will not be privy to the details which are important when tendering.

The committee is accountable to its members which is the basis on which we work. However, we are elected by the members to do the job and it is unreasonable and unworkable to have each and every decision and part of the decisions questioned at each point. The AGM is an opportunity for the members to review the committee and its decisions and elect a different committee should they see fit to.

I will not be answering any further questions around the website's procurement or any other decision to do with the website. In my opinion I have given more than adequate responses. However, any member unhappy about this decision or any other the committee makes has the right to call an EGM and the details about how to do this can be found in the constitution - http://maestro.org.uk/about-us/constitution/

I am committed to listening to the quiet majority not just the vocal minority. As I have commented before it is natural to mainly hear from those who are unhappy; those who are happy with the club and website etc are just getting on with it. That said, I am frequently thanked by members for the effort and way the committee run the club and often complimented by those working in the classic car world who can appreciate the vision the committee has for the club.

Of course we want to continue to hear about glitches with the website and we work through teething difficulties so specific problems accompanied by details are welcome and needed. For example 'too much white space' wouldn't be one, but 'I can't upload photos to x thread' would be. I will start a new thread just for this being clear that the purpose of the thread is for reporting on glitches.

[Jeff Turbo]

Forum is much quicker and seems to be working ok for me now. Hopefully the teething troubles are reducing

[Jeanius!]

I tried to update my phone number and got the same error message

Thanks. I've been told it is fixed in 5.2.3 along with lots of other fixes. I will apply that at a convenient point next week.

[Sussex Pete]

Ok, odd - Thanks! I'll try to replicate and look into it.

I tried to update my phone number and got the same error message

[Beaker]

Re-building the website and forum and linking it to the membership database cost £2500, which I feel is very good value for the work involved. While Jeanius! wasn't chosen purely on price, I think it was the cheapest or at least close to another quote. The work required was significant and some of this the members won't see as it's the backend. However, it's one step forward to making the club sustainable.

How many companies quoted? It seems an awful lot of money (and I am speaking from experience as I have just been involved in a tender for a new corporate website) for a service that has not been entirely delivered correctly. Can you please explain what has been done to the backend? What was significant? Why was a server move yet again required?

My quick sums come to around £700 (see below) excluding any backend work of which I don't know what it is.

New CMS/Template - £0 - £40 depending on if you decide to purchase a more professional one.
Time to install/move content 1-2 days Est £2-300
VB5 license - £160 - There are cheaper/better/alternatives
Forum upgrade 1/2 day, 1/2 day testing/seamless integration with CMS template. Est £100-£200

[Sussex Pete]

So what you are really saying it that it'll never happen as active membership is in decline.

This is one point I need to dispel E_T_V, When I took over the role of membership secretary in the middle of last year, the membership was in the 230's. I don't know if this was a low point or not, but considering the low number of our cars that are about and with other social media contact areas being available, I felt that this was a fair number. Today however, our membership is in the 280's. So, far from being in decline, it has grown by over 20% in just over a year. Hopefully that is recognition by most, that the club is moving in the right direction and want to be on board.

Unless of course, by active membership, you are trying to use the number of people using the forum as your indicator. In which case I would treat that as misleading, considering your overall view.

[Tanya]

E_T_V, I'm not going to go through each and every point again, however I disagree with most of what you have said, but not all.

I'll send the Service Bulletins over shortly.

Re-building the website and forum and linking it to the membership database cost £2500, which I feel is very good value for the work involved. While Jeanius! wasn't chosen purely on price, I think it was the cheapest or at least close to another quote. The work required was significant and some of this the members won't see as it's the backend. However, it's one step forward to making the club sustainable.

I won't be commenting of any further 'it awful' etc comments on the website and forum. It is here to stay but of course we want to work through the various teething troubles so we need to know specific issues which we can work on.

While I don't have the costs for outsourcing Monstro with me now, they were discussed at the AGM. From memory, I think it is going to roughly double the cost as producing Monstro is time consuming, time that committee sadly doesn't have.

The members who comment on this thread and you speak to are not the only members of the club, there are countless more who understand the position the club is in and are grateful for the time the committee give in running the club. While I'm not after gratitude, a bit of realism is essential. This club has a small committee the majority of who work so their club duties come alongside work, family lives and other commitments.

Fundamentally the position of the club hasn't changes in the last two or three years and this current committee was voted in at the AGM with the members aware of the general plans of the committee.

Many small clubs like ours are in the same predicament as us and while there is always room for improvement, as a whole we are making steady progress and moving forward. I know that several BL/ARG clubs are having exactly the same issues as we are, so it would be helpful to work with them to find a way forward that is sustainable and can built resilience into the clubs.

[Jeff Turbo]

This started off as a new forum problem but has progressed to, let's bash the club on everything I don't like about it. There will be teething problems that are slowly being sorted out as people inform what problems they have. It's now faster and improving as the bugs issues I assume will be sorted. Unfortunately there are quite a few teething problems

[Jeanius!]

Ok, odd - Thanks! I'll try to replicate and look into it.